Whole leaf tobacco

[larryccf]

A lot of my tobacco I grow organically and organic prices are higher . It does take a lot more time to produce a pound of organic than it would the modern way .
I may reduce the price on my organic and quit growing organic tobacco . If it was not organic it would still be priced around $18 a pound . That is $6 a pound more for organic growing ???

What is a fair price for organic tobacco ??

The marketplace is probably the best judge of what a fair price is. I know American Spirit charged considerably more for their natural organic tobacco blends.

I am curious though - having zero experience / knowledge as a gardener, if you could briefly detail the difference in organically grown tobacco vs non-organic.

 

[wooda2008]

A lot of my tobacco I grow organically and organic prices are higher . It does take a lot more time to produce a pound of organic than it would the modern way .
I may reduce the price on my organic and quit growing organic tobacco . If it was not organic it would still be priced around $18 a pound . That is $6 a pound more for organic growing ???

What is a fair price for organic tobacco ??

1/3 higher price for twice the work? I think it's a fair price as it stands. You're also the only grower selling silver river leaf, so if someone (me) really wants to have finished leaf to compare their home grow to, they (me) will generally pay the premium to get it.

You know better than anyone else if it's worth your time to grow organic. I don't know how many of your customers value the organic label.

 

[BigBonner]

The marketplace is probably the best judge of what a fair price is. I know American Spirit charged considerably more for their natural organic tobacco blends.

I am curious though - having zero experience / knowledge as a gardener, if you could briefly detail the difference in organically grown tobacco vs non-organic.

No weed killers . Weeding by tractor and by hand . Suckers removal by hand several times . Bug / worm control organically . Growing plants organic . Organic fertilizer. Keeping organic tobacco separate and not mixing with other tobacco .

 

[ZigZagZeppelin]

A lot of my tobacco I grow organically and organic prices are higher . It does take a lot more time to produce a pound of organic than it would the modern way .
I may reduce the price on my organic and quit growing organic tobacco . If it was not organic it would still be priced around $18 a pound . That is $6 a pound more for organic growing ???

What is a fair price for organic tobacco ??

I'm sure its a lot more work to grow "organic" bacca. I've bought organic from another website that sells leaf.....It was $4 a pound more then their other tobacco's.....Was it better for me, as a consumer, then other strains? That depended on the strain, if I was growing tobacco I probably wouldn't bother with organic.

I should be sticking with just Virginia FC's anyways. I just use bacca for cigs.....I rarely add burley, Maryland or orientals anyways.....those last me forever.

I'll place my order next Saturday.

 

[Gavroche]

BB, you did notice that you had more dry material(subject) it organic than in chemical? Here, fruits and vegetables organic possess less water in the fibers than the chemical agriculture(farming).

All my encouragements for your organic culture

BB, avez-vous remarqué que vous aviez plus de matière sèche en organic qu'en chimique ? Ici, les fruits et légumes organic possèdent moins d'eau dans les fibres que l'agriculture chimique.

Tous mes encouragements pour votre culture organique

 

[larryccf]

No weed killers . Weeding by tractor and by hand . Suckers removal by hand several times . Bug / worm control organically . Growing plants organic . Organic fertilizer. Keeping organic tobacco separate and not mixing with other tobacco .

appreciate the response - given the extra manual effort plus the fact that you could probably twice the organic acreage in non-organic tobacco in the same amount of time, it justifies the additional price on the marketplace. But the question remains will the marketplace be ready & willing to pay for it.

I tried another stick of the silver river, and it is good with a real nice "earthy" note to the taste - my system just can't tolerate the higher nicotene

 

[BigBonner]

BB, you did notice that you had more dry material(subject) it organic than in chemical? Here, fruits and vegetables organic possess less water in the fibers than the chemical agriculture(farming).

All my encouragements for your organic culture

BB, avez-vous remarqué que vous aviez plus de matière sèche en organic qu'en chimique ? Ici, les fruits et légumes organic possèdent moins d'eau dans les fibres que l'agriculture chimique.

Tous mes encouragements pour votre culture organique

Organic seems dryer after curing . Growing without commercial fertilizers , tobacco will bot grow as fast and as big and making less pounds per acre .

I started growing organic for people who was wanting organic tobacco . There is not enough customers to justify growing tobacco organically .

 

[deluxestogie]

I believe that BB's price for organically grown tobacco is appropriate, considering the economic realities of agriculture. [Most farmers of anything use chemicals, not because they love chemicals or are lazy, but because it enables them to actually make a profit selling a commodity in a competitive market.]

With regard to the question of whether or not growing organic tobacco is a wise decision, I would point out that a substantial percentage of people who make their own cigarettes do so (initially at least) because of a desire to save money. So "organic" seems misdirected at these folks.

I think we're all crazy if we don't eat organically grown food. BUT...I never purchase organic foods. They're too expensive for me. I do endeavor to grow organic food for myself. Life is full of choices.

Just my opinion.

Bob

 

[larryccf]

I believe that BB's price for organically grown tobacco is appropriate, considering the economic realities of agriculture. [Most farmers of anything use chemicals, not because they love chemicals or are lazy, but because it enables them to actually make a profit selling a commodity in a competitive market.]

With regard to the question of whether or not growing organic tobacco is a wise decision, I would point out that a substantial percentage of people who make their own cigarettes do so (initially at least) because of a desire to save money. So "organic" seems misdirected at these folks.

I think we're all crazy if we don't eat organically grown food. BUT...I never purchase organic foods. They're too expensive for me. I do endeavor to grow organic food for myself. Life is full of choices.

Just my opinion.

Bob

agreed as to the possible "misdirection" of organic tobacco at a customer base that was primarily interested in saving on costs. But then layer on top of that consideration the fact that a number of organic food vendors and even one tobacco producer (ie iirc, American Spirit got hit with a helluva lawsuit claiming their organic natural tobacco wasn't organic) - food wise, i'm not certain but i vaguely recall Whole Foods had something of a stink on some of the products they carried in their stores. I think some folks are going to be skeptical or wonder if the organic descript is legit. I don't have any doubts about BigBonner's descript, but some customers aren't going to know him.

a suggestion for BigBonner, if he does build a website, might be to offer some description or detail explaining the extra effort that goes into organic tobacco, and the chemicals that don't go into it, on the page with the silver river. He mentioned a couple points in his detailing above that hadn't occurred to me, and probably haven't occurred to a number of people, especially the part about non-chemically fertilized tobacco not growing leaves as large. fwiw

 

[Gavroche]

1.87 m 77 kg ... I eat as much as possible organic but I eat less ... On my tobacco, I refuse to put insecticides ... to smoke is can be bad but smoke of the chemical is very bad.


1.87 m 77 kg... je mange le plus possible organic mais je mange moins...Sur mon tabac, je refuse de mettre des insecticides... fumer est peut être mauvais mais fumer du chimique est très mauvais.

 

[ZigZagZeppelin]

My only experience smoking organic tobacco was commercial American Spirits a decade ago and Leaf Only "certified organic" Canadian vfc and "certified organic" American VFC.

I thought the American VFC organic was better. It was worth the extra 25% they charged 20.99 at the time, not 16.99 (the price for regular) they charge.

Their Canadian "certified organic" was much more dried out and it was worse then the 16.99 Canadian vfc.

$24 is twice as much as $12 a pound. That's DOUBLE the price. Its the only reason I mentioned it. Not worth it for the consumer or the grower to bother growing it, imo.

 

[deluxestogie]

...a number of organic food vendors and even one tobacco producer...lawsuit...

"Organic" sounds like a description. Unfortunately, it is a USDA government certification (https://www.usda.gov/topics/organic) that specific conditions have been met, and that government inspections of the production have been performed. For certain very small producers of plants or animals (e.g. Organic farms and businesses with less than $5,000 gross annual organic sales: https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/2 Exempt Producers FINAL RGK V2.pdf), the required government inspections can be waived, although all the same requirements must be met, in order to bear the certification that a product is "organic." So, "organic" is a legal assertion that the government has been a party to the verification. [Never mind that "organic" has been a scientific term with an entirely different meaning for over a century!]

A statement of "naturally grown", "chemical free", or "sustainably produced" has no legal or governmental meaning, other than what one might assume to be a "reasonable expectation".

Bob

 

[larryccf]

"Organic" sounds like a description. Unfortunately, it is a USDA government certification (https://www.usda.gov/topics/organic) that specific conditions have been met, and that government inspections of the production have been performed. For certain very small producers of plants or animals (e.g. Organic farms and businesses with less than $5,000 gross annual organic sales: https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/2 Exempt Producers FINAL RGK V2.pdf), the required government inspections can be waived, although all the same requirements must be met, in order to bear the certification that a product is "organic." So, "organic" is a legal assertion that the government has been a party to the verification. [Never mind that "organic" has been a scientific term with an entirely different meaning for over a century!]

A statement of "naturally grown", "chemical free", or "sustainably produced" has no legal or governmental meaning, other than what one might assume to be a "reasonable expectation".

Bob

WHILE I appreciate the edification on the distinction, that wasn't the focus of my point...there have been a number of incidents where vendors have been exposed making fraudulent claims about the "organic" classification of their product. It's gotten a little of hand when we "organic" Cheetos offered at most convenience stores

 

[BigBonner]

WHILE I appreciate the edification on the distinction, that wasn't the focus of my point...there have been a number of incidents where vendors have been exposed making fraudulent claims about the "organic" classification of their product. It's gotten a little of hand when we "organic" Cheetos offered at most convenience stores

All I can give is my word and some pictures .
I fall into the under $5000 organic class . We have checked into getting papered certification but with my small amount of organic sales I would be wasting my time . That is why I most usually say grown with organic practices but not certified .
Even with a certified certificate it still does not prove clearly that tobacco or any other product is organic no matter where it came from . Big tobacco is one that would be able to get away with labeling under organic . They have been known to be sneaky at times .

Made in the USA does not always mean that goods are completely made in the USA .
Here in KY we have farmers who are certified KY Proud .My son is and sell produce , salsa , preserves , etc. that "HE GROWS " as Kentucky Proud and has stickers that he puts on his produce or has his papers where customers can see them .
But there is some KY Proud farmers who buy goods from other places and sells them under KY Proud . Like one person buys coffee beans , He grinds them up and sell them as his KY Proud product even though he bought the beans from another country . Another one gets packaged beef from a packing house ( Labeled with packing house name ) and sells it out as his and as grass feed beef . He is a auctioneer at a local stockyards .

Here is a picture of my sons produce . He also sell most at auction , dirt cheap .

Yes there is a lot of fraudulent claims but how would you go about proving them . Bigger the company does not always men they are more honest .

 

[ZigZagZeppelin]

Organic is a liberal "buzz word".....Especially when it applies to tobacco, something that is lit and combusted. Tar is produced, and that is never organic.

My fatherinlaw grows Concord grapes, 182 acres in western NY.....he refuses to bother with "organic"......more work, less sales

Nice pic, BB!

 

[larryccf]

All I can give is my word and some pictures . ... .

BigBonner, i don't think anyone here doubts the legitimacy of your "organic" labeling. Hope you didn't get that impression

 

[ZigZagZeppelin]

I've only heard good things about Big Bonner and his tobacco. I hope he doesn't think I doubt his authenticity, I don't doubt it.

 

[burge]

Big's Virginia is really good Zig. I looked into one of his sites and it said all his tobacco is basically grown to organic standards but not certified. I will be buying his Virginia again. one of the best prices out there. You will not be disappointed with the leaf. The yellow twist but is nice and mellow have not tried the darker burleys so can't comment on them but it is good leaf and like Dons you can taste the difference. You had mentioned leaf only and to be quite truthful these leaves are better. WLT and Big's are for me tied in quality. Big offers 2 Virginias that different than Dons.

 

[ZigZagZeppelin]

Big's Virginia is really good Zig. I looked into one of his sites and it said all his tobacco is basically grown to organic standards but not certified. I will be buying his Virginia again. one of the best prices out there. You will not be disappointed with the leaf. The yellow twist but is nice and mellow have not tried the darker burleys so can't comment on them but it is good leaf and like Dons you can taste the difference. You had mentioned leaf only and to be quite truthful these leaves are better. WLT and Big's are for me tied in quality. Big offers 2 Virginias that different than Dons.

I haven't bought off "Leaf Only" since March.......and I started with leaf in Feb 2017......Don's tobacco was just better and stored in much better bags. I'm gonna buy Big's baccy next week even though I have plenty here. Planning on buying yellow + orange virginia's both. Maybe some YTB, not sure on that.

 

[Gavroche]

organic Burlei is good fantastique