Trials and tribulations of my first attempt

[Bex]

Something else I am thinking about, as well - initially I thought that my problem might be air circulation in the freezer. But there is no circulation whatsoever in the towels. Already in 36 hours, the yellowing in the towels has exceeded what I have accomplished in almost a week with the freezer. I think that perhaps, with this run, I have vented too much (even though the hygrometer is steadily reading 95% or so). And too, the hygrometer may also be in the wrong position. In the past, I have had it down at the lower part of the leaf - where there would have been less RH. I moved it up further for this run, so that may have contributed to the problem as well.

Sadly, I think that my first major run is going to be a failure....I have already found a couple of leaves that have the beginning of mold on them....and they are still green.

 

[DGBAMA]

Maybe pile the leaves for a few days to get yellowing started, then transfer to the chamber, for the next batch.

 

[deluxestogie]

Pile curing increases the ambient concentration of ethylene gas, which is emitted from the yellowing leaves, and which accelerates the yellowing of nearby leaves.

Bob

 

[Bex]

Ethylene...I wonder if I put a bushel of apples in the bottom of the freezer will help...

I have cranked the temp up on this run, just to get it over with and try to minimize the damage, but I also need to figure out what happened here. Aside from my new vent, which I thought was working famously well, I also had moved the hygrometer probe higher up in the freezer, under the assumption that the moisture was rising, and having the hygrometer higher would indicate more accurate humidity, as well as stopping any mold issues. It had the opposite effect. And my experiment indicated to me that it is not the leaf I have that is slow in curing, but the freezer set up itself that is not enhancing the curing method properly. I need to figure this out.

 

[Brown Thumb]

Bananas are suppose to work.

 

[deluxestogie]

Three years ago, I did a comparison of yellowing for Shirazi leaf. Part was hung within a closed, 31 gallon trash can with a pile of banana peels. The other part was simply hung in the shed as usual.

The Shirazi in the can with the banana peels (a rich source of ethylene) yellowed in only four days, whereas the Shirazi hanging in the shed required four days. The belly ache from eating an entire bunch of bananas at one sitting resolved in four days.

Bob

 

[Bex]

The Shirazi in the can with the banana peels (a rich source of ethylene) yellowed in only four days, whereas the Shirazi hanging in the shed required four days.
Bob

Hmmmm....four days vs......four days. All those bananas for nothing...By the way, ever watch a monkey open a banana? They do it from the end without the stem - far easier, and smarter than most humans!!

Anyway, monkeys, bananas and apples notwithstanding, I've hiked the temp up in the freezer, so that the area furthest away from the crockpot is warmed up. I must say that the aroma coming out of the freezer has improved - it has regained that kind of sweet leafy smell, whereas earlier I thought I was getting tinges of something rather unpleasant. I'll leave it as it is until morning, and then view the damage...

In the meantime, I have to think of ways to duplicate what happens in the propagator, in the freezer. There has to be a way.

 

[deluxestogie]

When green tobacco leaf cooks (i.e. it's too hot for yellowing), it will give off the aroma of cooked asparagus--in fact it's the smell of asparagine. Any other nice aromas are a good sign.

Bob

 

[Bex]

Asparagus is my favorite vegetable, actually. The aroma coming out of the freezer was not really like that - and at that time, the temp in the freezer would not have been too hot, I don't think - it was only still at the yellowing temp of about 95F. So hopefully, no cooking. But it wasn't the same smell that I have had previously when doing this. On the other hand, when I bumped the temp up, within about 20 minutes or so, that familiar smell was back. This current run has me quite frustrated - as does the fact that the leaf is yellowing nicely in the propagator. But I think that you may be on to something when you say that the temp in the chamber might not have been warm enough initially. And, of course, I was doing the run with 4x as many leaves as I am used to. I am undaunted, however - I still have plenty of plants in the tunnel, and will try again. I just wish I could find a 'set and forget' way to do this, and be able to have somewhat consistent results. These 12 day runs are frustrating, and I know that I MUST be doing something wrong.....

I am wondering if a fan will give me better heat distribution......

 

[DGBAMA]

Fan does help. I will be adding another to mine in the off season. I still see room for improvement in the corners.

 

[Brown Thumb]

Fan does help. I will be adding another to mine in the off season. I still see room for improvement in the corners.

I agree. I am upsizing mine cfm also for next yr.
I will give you a example.
I paint a car in a closed box with no airflow the solvents in the paint on the car will release slower due to the solvents in the air in the box trying to equalize. Suck or move them and they will come out much faster.
I hope that makes some sense. I am not good at explaining things.
BT

 

[leverhead]

...I just wish I could find a 'set and forget' way to do this, and be able to have somewhat consistent results. These 12 day runs are frustrating,...

That's pretty funny! I thought that you were having fun. I needed a break long before the end of the season.

 

[Bex]

Well, yes, I am having fun...although I wish I was having fun and being successful at the same time. However, I bumped my temp up slightly last night and my leaf looks alot better in the morning light. No brightleaf this time, however, the leaf is turning brown, while the midribs are still green. I am going to finish the process - leaf, midrib drying, etc. AND put a fan in for the next run. I have one specific corner where the leaf always struggles to change - the Candela Corner.

So, some fan (and electricity) questions. Early on, when I was wiring the crockpot, I was advised to watch out because of water and electricity. I think this is something that has deterred me from dropping a fan into what is sometimes a steamy and moist container. So, how do you protect the electrics so everything doesn't short out? For example, I have a very small little heater with a fan that I was thinking of putting in - I could remove the heating element. But the heater has vents where the moisture could drip in, and short out the wiring. Then I thought about putting a small computer fan into my vent hose - using it like an extractor - the electrics would be outside the container. But is extracting the same as blowing the air around in the container? For my crockpot, I put a very long lead on it, so it's plugged in outside the container. I don't have holes in the side of the freezer, so whatever electrics I put in, the lead runs up the container wall and out through the lid. If I do the same thing with my little heater fan, would that be ok for the electrics as well? I assume I shouldn't be plugging this into an extension cord inside the freezer...???

I'd really like some detailed help on this one.....

 

[deluxestogie]

Given your diluvian experience on a previous run, your caution about electrical exposure to the moisture is well founded. Using an external fan to simply exhaust the air will, of course, result in air being drawn in from the exterior, which will throw off your temp/humidity. Simply circulating air within the freezer is ideal.

I'm not sure if you can find the flexible, expandable hosing used in the US for clothes drier exhaust--I think about 4" in diameter. If you can locate something similar, then you can construct a loop of it that enters and exits the freezer at the gasket level (somewhat flattening the ends of the hose that pass the gasket), with the loop exterior to the freezer. This may require some creative way to support its weight, but you can then surgically implant a small fan into mid-loop of the hose. A tiny drain hole in the hose, beneath the fan, can allow any condensate to drip out.

The openings (ends) of the hose can be directed downward a short distance inside the freezer, taking air from the nice side, and returning it to the evil side. All electrical connections will remain exterior to the freezer.

Bob

 

[Bex]

I have to re-read your post again to understand this. In the meantime, I was going to ask...I have this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Glen-2-KW-F...r_1_5?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1415098799&sr=1-5
The cord is long enough to extend out of the freezer. The fan blows up and out. Of course, it says 'do not allow moisture into the heater'. Eck. So, is this a no go??

 

[Bex]

By the way, I think that my flooding issue is a thing of the past - I have the water intake system stabilized, so that no water is on the floor (and this little heater above stands on legs..!!) It is basically the humidity and moisture in the air of the freezer that I'm paranoid about, water droplets dripping from the lid of the freezer, etc. I suppose this would just be a lot easier if I just drilled holes into the freezer wall itself. On the other hand, this heater/fan may be a bit of overkill, as it does put out a decent enough stream of air, and you cannot adjust the fan for slow, high, etc.

 

[deluxestogie]

Like this:

Bob

 

[DGBAMA]

The computer fans have been good for me, durable, low power usage, and handle the temp well. I started with a portable heater fan, it lasted until temp went above 130f, then was quickly killed by the heat. Moisture has been a non-issue.

 

[Bex]

Like this:
Bob

Yes, I was able to visualize this, and understand. (But thanks for the illustration!) My situation is so rife with difficulty - fix one issue, and another occurs. Currently, I am using 1-1/2 inch reinforced pond hose for my 'vent'. So, I was thinking about using that (as I have a load of it) for the idea for the fan, as per your diagram, as well. However, the problem that arises - as the freezer is outside, and it is now colder, even with the size of the current vent hose, I am having difficulty getting the temp beyond 120F. The freezer is covered now with 2 blankets, but I find that the stat is struggling, unless I reduce the size of the vent (by closing the top of the freezer more and removing the hose). I sound like a whining child, as I re-read this. Considering my 'experience' thus far, I think I would only need the fan during the yellowing/wilting stage, where the heat distribution is giving me the most trouble - so perhaps the hose set up would work during yellowing (as it is easy to maintain the 95F so far). Once I start climbing near 120F, I would have to remove this, in order to maintain the heat. (Of course, this would be 'far' easier, if someone would just say - put your heater/fan into the freezer with no problem...???)

 

[deluxestogie]

Have you considered adding a second heat source? Perhaps a second Crockpot. Also, an external duct might need some insulation.

Bob