Advice on Seedlings

[srm038]

Hi all, this is my second year attempting to start tobacco from seedlings. Last year, I really half-assed it and they all died.

This year, I got some better equipment, lights, heating mat, better starting soil, and planted in mid-February. They seemed to be doing much better until a few days ago (2.5 weeks), when they've started to dry up and die.

I took the humidity dome off as soon as they'd sprouted. I water from the bottom when the top is dry. I leave the heat mat on 75F. Thinned out cells when they were about an inch tall to give them room. Every other watering, I add in a small amount of Miracle-Gro plant food.

I think part of the issue was that I only have two 12" grow lights and they don't cover the whole 72-cell tray. So the cells on the edge were already lagging behind from not getting the same light.

What am I doing wrong? Are these salvageable? Not all of them are yellowing but I have a bad feeling since I don't know the cause.

https://imgur.com/Jm6x86W

 

[jclif43]

I’m certainly no expert, but thin them out more.

 

[wruk53]

If the starting mix already contained fertilizer, I would not give them any more than that. You may be burning them up with fertilizer. It's hard to tell without knowing what you planted them in. Seedlings don't need a lot of nutrients. They tend to grow slowly for the first few weeks until they develop a robust root system, then they take off. I agree with jclif43 that they need to be thinned out.

 

[srm038]

If the starting mix already contained fertilizer, I would not give them any more than that. You may be burning them up with fertilizer. It's hard to tell without knowing what you planted them in. Seedlings don't need a lot of nutrients. They tend to grow slowly for the first few weeks until they develop a robust root system, then they take off. I agree with jclif43 that they need to be thinned out.

I used Black Gold Seedling Mix, which has peat moss, perlite, and dolomite lime. I'll cut the additional fertilizer (haven't added more since I noticed this) and thin them out again.
Thanks for the tips!

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I agree with @jclif43 in that you should thin them out. One plant per cell.

What's surrounding them? Enclosing it with reflective walls and ceiling, either silver or white will help distribute the light better.

Are the sides slightly higher than the middle? If so, they aren't getting as much water.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

You will need bigger pots in a month. You should plan ahead because you're already at the limit of two twelve inch grow lights.

 

[srm038]

I agree with @jclif43 in that you should thin them out. One plant per cell.

What's surrounding them? Enclosing it with reflective walls and ceiling, either silver or white will help distribute the light better.

Are the sides slightly higher than the middle? If so, they aren't getting as much water.

Nothing right now. I'm thinking through how I would put a foil tent around it to reflect the light I do have.

You will need bigger pots in a month. You should plan ahead because you're already at the limit of two twelve inch grow lights.

At this point, would I need lights? Or should they be big enough to start hardening outside?

 

[deluxestogie]

Welcome to the forum, @srm038. Feel free to introduce yourself in our Introduce Yourself forum. Read the New Growers' FAQ, and scan for topics of interest in our Index of Key Forum Threads. Both are linked in the menu bar.

"What is the composition of Miracle-Gro All Purpose Plant Food?
Ingredients. Derived From Ammonium Sulfate, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Urea, Urea Phosphate, Boric Acid, Copper Sulfate, Iron EDTA, Manganese EDTA, Sodium Molybdate, And Zinc Sulfate."

Tiny tobacco seedlings can be quite sensitive to urea fertilizer. Also, chlorides contribute to tobacco that may look great, but burn poorly. I agree that the fertilizer should be stopped. Unless you are planning to grow more than 60 plants, I would also thin to a single seedling per cell.

What variety or varieties are you growing?

Bob

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

At this point, would I need lights? Or should they be big enough to start hardening outside?

Our climates couldn't be more different so I can't say if you can put them outside. That would be ideal. If they're a couple inches tall and you're above 45° at night and above 65° in the day, it should be safe. You could take them in and out, daily.

There are plenty of growers who do just fine with a south facing window. Right now, because windows can get quite hot when it's sunny, I would stick with the grow lights, but when they are a little bigger, maybe you could combine the grow lights with a window.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Are you on a well?

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I looked up the weather in LA, which I assume is Louisiana, and I can't help but wonder why a person would even bother with grow lights. So, throwing this out as a question to the rest of the forum.

 

[LeftyRighty]

I agree with setting them outside on warm days, good ole sunshine is always better than indoor lighting.
Start with a couple days at just a 1/2 hour of sunlight, then increase to an hour for couple days, etc. etc. And they can tolerate anything above 45 degrees.

 

[srm038]

Welcome to the forum, @srm038. Feel free to introduce yourself in our Introduce Yourself forum. Read the New Growers' FAQ, and scan for topics of interest in our Index of Key Forum Threads. Both are linked in the menu bar.

"What is the composition of Miracle-Gro All Purpose Plant Food?
Ingredients. Derived From Ammonium Sulfate, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Urea, Urea Phosphate, Boric Acid, Copper Sulfate, Iron EDTA, Manganese EDTA, Sodium Molybdate, And Zinc Sulfate."

Tiny tobacco seedlings can be quite sensitive to urea fertilizer. Also, chlorides contribute to tobacco that may look great, but burn poorly. I agree that the fertilizer should be stopped. Unless you are planning to grow more than 60 plants, I would also thin to a single seedling per cell.

What variety or varieties are you growing?

Bob

I got the starter packs from Northwood Seeds, plenty of varieties: Cuban Criollo 98, Havana 142, Habano 2000, Florida Sumatra, KY 15, Cherry Red, Black Sea Sampson, and Little Dutch.

Are you on a well?

No but I'm using distilled water.

I looked up the weather in LA, which I assume is Louisiana, and I can't help but wonder why a person would even bother with grow lights. So, throwing this out as a question to the rest of the forum.

Almost seems *too* hot here even now in March. I will start with a few minutes outside each day. But we also tend to have a lot of fluctuation at this point in the year; it'll be 80 today and 60 next week.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

No but I'm using distilled water

Bingo

Use tap water.

 

[Alpine]

Good catch @ChinaVoodoo !

pier

 

[Chumco]

I know nothing about growing plants, but wouldn't distilled water only be bad if the plants didn't have access to the nutrients they need in the first place? If he is using fertilizer or soil that has the same minerals and stuff in regular water, then I can't see how distilled would damage them as I'd imagine the water will dissolve the minerals it doesn't have while it sits in the dirt. Perhaps if he was overwatering the distilled water could be leaching the nutrients out and depositing them outside of the trays.

Commercial spring water looks like it usually has magnesium, calcium, potassium, and some kind of salt, and a quick google glance looks like rainwater might be the same (but at a lower concentration). Are they perhaps missing one of these minerals that wouldn't be in the soil and fertilizer?

 

[skychaser]

I know nothing about growing plants, but wouldn't distilled water only be bad if the plants didn't have access to the nutrients they need in the first place? If he is using fertilizer or soil that has the same minerals and stuff in regular water, then I can't see how distilled would damage them as I'd imagine the water will dissolve the minerals it doesn't have while it sits in the dirt. Perhaps if he was overwatering the distilled water could be leaching the nutrients out and depositing them outside of the trays.

Yes, I completely agree. Distilled water won't hurt the plants. Over watering is the number one way people kill seedlings. And ironically, over watering makes them look like they aren't getting enough water because it kills the roots. Take a butter knife and slide it in along the edge of a cell and pop the whole thing out. If the soil at the bottom is super wet or muddy, then that is the problem. You'll see roots near the top but none in the bottom 2/3 of the cell. Been there, done that.

Any half decent starting mix should provide all the nutrients the seedlings need in the first weeks. I never fertilize until about week 4. And I have used Miracle Grow on my tobaccos, and all my other starts for over a decade now. It is excellent, imho. And it can't hurt them if you follow the directions and don't over do it! It won't affect the burn rate of the tobacco when you harvest because it is all long gone a couple weeks after planting them out. And the urea in it won't hurt them. There is a lot of confusion over urea on how you should, or shouldn't use it. Don't use urea out in the field unless you apply it 2-3 weeks before planting seedlings. Or only use it as a side dressing and not right over the top of seedlings. That's where the problems can occur. It can burn or kill the roots before it has a chance to break down some.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Over watering makes a lot of sense. I agree that's what it looks like. I never thought about rain water being similar to distilled.

I think there might still be a potential issue with distilled water that wouldn't come up with rain water. Oxygen content. Having been boiled, you could be suffocating the roots.

 

[skychaser]

Oxygen content. Having been boiled, you could be suffocating the roots.

Not so much as the boiling might reduce oxygen in the water, which it might, compared to what drowning them does to the roots. Same thing though. No oxygen down in the soil. The soil needs to be moist for the plant to grow, but the roots need to be able to "breath" too. If not, rot sets in and kills them.

Rain water is natures distilled water. It's as pure as the air it falls through. Or the roof it runs off.

 

[srm038]

I use a toothpick to measure the moisture content near the top, like a pie. But perhaps I'm still doing too much.