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Color Curing Temperature

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TigerTom

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Apologies if this has been answered. I did a search using several different ways of phrasing and wording what I'm looking for and also searched through the FAQ and was unsuccessful.

Here goes...

Is there an ideal temperature range for color curing cigar leaf? Does it vary with different varieties?

I find references for humidity, but not temperature.

Thanks.

-Tom
 

Moth

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I've found warmer is better, just be sure the humidity stays optimal (75%+). As temp rises, humidity drops.
Due the the unseasonably hot and humid UK summer, I've been curing between 20c and 30c depending on ambient temps. 30c is faster.
The thread for MABs growlog has a few posts where we talked about curing temps here and here.
If you do cure in either boxes or bags, paper layering and regular checks are crucial - just like waiting for a pear to ripen (nothing nothing nothing - bang - overripe). If you skip a check, a leaf can go from nothing to composted areas in a day.
 

deluxestogie

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I would say that at average temps below 60° F, color-curing seems to take forever. As GreenDragon observed, above, the warmer the faster the color-cure--so long as it stays below about 100°F (above which the temp may kill the leaf).

Humidity plays two roles in color-curing.
  • RH above about 60% prevents the leaf from drying and dying prematurely
  • the higher the RH, the darker the final color tends to become.
Some upper leaf from certain cigar varieties don't fully color-cure in my shed until 6 to 9 months has passed.

In a natural setting (i.e. in a shed, rather than a cardboard box or bag), humidity is maintained during the heat of the day by ventilation of the shed. 20°F increase in ambient temp will drop the RH by ~50%. Fully green leaf can easily tolerate partial days of very low RH (higher temp), but as it colors more and more, the leaf's moisture content is not as resilient. Stalk-curing helps keep up the humidity.

Caveat: White-stem burleys achieve a lovely color faster than they complete the metabolic processes of color-curing. Give them plenty of extra time (4 to 6 weeks) after they have colored.

Bob
 
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TigerTom

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Thanks so much everyone! This helps me plan next year's cigar crop. It gets so blasting hot here in the summer it seems I should plant with a mind to harvest maybe mid September. Before then, the days range from uncomfortable to "I just want to lie down and die".

And thanks, Bob, for the tip on the white-stemmed burleys. Now, it is my understanding that most burleys these days are white-stemmed, or am I mistaken?
 

GreenDragon

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Just as a color reference, these pics are from leaves that were cured in a box for 7 days on my back deck in shade. Humidity was relatively stable between 70-90%. Night lows were 75, highs were 95F. The Connecticut shade and Comstock cured faster than the Glessner, and were almost done at the 7 day mark, whereas the Glessner took a full two weeks.

The Glessner is shown on the cutting board at the one week point at which I frog legged them to prevent mold due to their very thick stems. They are very large, averaging 30". I think if I'm careful I can get 4 wrappers out of each leaf!

Things have slowed down now as I've had to move the curing box indoors as the temps are in the 100's and the humidity is now 30-40%.

IMG_0378.jpg


IMG_0379.jpg


IMG_0380.jpg
 

TigerTom

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Just as a color reference, these pics are from leaves that were cured in a box for 7 days on my back deck in shade. Humidity was relatively stable between 70-90%. Night lows were 75, highs were 95F. The Connecticut shade and Comstock cured faster than the Glessner, and were almost done at the 7 day mark, whereas the Glessner took a full two weeks.

The Glessner is shown on the cutting board at the one week point at which I frog legged them to prevent mold due to their very thick stems. They are very large, averaging 30". I think if I'm careful I can get 4 wrappers out of each leaf!

Things have slowed down now as I've had to move the curing box indoors as the temps are in the 100's and the humidity is now 30-40%.

That looks great! I was thinking of using a tarp and setting up some sort of curing tent outside, similar to sun curing except with an opaque tarp and in the shade. I'll have to look into the box method.
 

Moth

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Some upper leaf from certain cigar varieties don't fully color-cure in my shed until 6 to 9 months has passed.
This got me thinking. Does this leaf get crispy dry, and still dark green, which works itself out over the course of a year of colour curing?

I'm finding some /majority of the DR Olor and Criollo, after I have colour cured to yellow and hung to dry, will dry out and have a darker green underside, when the topside is brown. The PA Red doesn't do this and is a lovely rich colour throughout.

I'm not concerned as I've read that this darker underside resolves itself in a kiln.

So back to these growth tips. Is it the same sort of thing - do they yellow and dry to a dark brown/green, or, do they not fully yellow and dry a dark green which eventually cures out? Do you have any pics? I'm starting to harvest the Seco and wondering about how Ligero will behave when its ready
 

deluxestogie

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after I have colour cured to yellow and hung to dry, will dry out and have a darker green underside, when the topside is brown.
Some leaf does that. If the top surface is properly colored, then the greenish underside resolves with fermentation. I have no photos of the upper vs. lower surfaces of such leaves, though I've tried. Photos just don't show the color correctly.
I'm starting to harvest the Seco and wondering about how Ligero will behave when its ready
I'm not sure what you are asking here. A certain sign of a leaf ready to harvest is that its tip begins to yellow. Another sign is that the leaf surface goes from relatively smooth to becoming rough or rugose.

Bob
 

Moth

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I'm not sure what you are asking here. A certain sign of a leaf ready to harvest is that its tip begins to yellow. Another sign is that the leaf surface goes from relatively smooth to becoming rough or rugose.

The seco (mid stalk, smaller leaves) are being plucked when yellow tip / alligator texture. I'm unsure if the ligero would get yellow tips or colour cure as easily, being comparatively so small / young.
 

deluxestogie

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"Seco" is above the mud lugs, but below the mid-stalk, and tends to be larger than the leaves above them. The Spanish terms are for the benefit of cigar makers, rather than defining leaf to growers.

Given the vague nomenclature, I've found it sufficient to separate into:
  • mud lugs (fliers and trash)
  • lugs (usually designated as "seco")
  • mid leaf
  • upper leaf
  • tips
If those upper leaves change from smooth to "alligator", then they can be harvested. They're easier to color cure, the later you wait.

Bob
 

Moth

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Sorry for the nomenclature mixup, yes, upper leaf.

Still unclear about:
Some upper leaf from certain cigar varieties don't fully color-cure in my shed until 6 to 9 months has passed.

VS

If those upper leaves change from smooth to "alligator", then they can be harvested. They're easier to color cure, the later you wait.

For the leaf that's 9 months to properly cure, what for it look like / how does it behave? Is it stubborn to yellow? Does it dry dark brown green? How does it's behaviour during cutting differ?
 

deluxestogie

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I can't offer any additional clarification about "behavior". I've discussed two different things: air-curing (in the first quote above) and appropriate harvesting time (in the second quote above).

Bob
 

Charly

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I think Moth wanted to know if your top leaved (which takes 6 to 9 month to fully color cure) does dry with a dark green color (at least in the underside), then looses its greenish color while already dry, or does it stay alive 6 to 9 months before browning, dying and drying.

Some of my own leaves dry with dark green underside (it occurs mostly when the leaves are not mature enough and/or when they dry too fast). These greenish color goes out with kilning. Those leaves are often not as good as the other yellowish leaves.
 

deluxestogie

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If that is the question, the answer is that the top leaves (harvested at an appropriate stage of maturity) are hung in the shed. They color-cure to a very dark brown, and eventually dry (and die) at some point, in response to ambient conditions in the shed. Months later, on certain particularly thick top leaves, I observe that the underside of the fully color-cured (dead) leaf is a dull greenish brown. This sometimes clears with further hanging in the shed, but usually changes to brown after kilning. These leaves are intense, flavorful and excellent. My impression has been that harvesting these leaves even later than I usually harvest them has not made a difference in this color phenomenon.

The only way I can understand this sequence of events is to assume that the greenish coloration--only on the underside of the leaf lamina--is not chlorophyll, or it is a chlorophyll metabolite that has been chemically modified by the plant's intrinsic enzyme systems to a form that will easily break down, but that still reflects a green coloration. Another possibility is that the background carotinoid pigments, which provide the red and yellow colors to color-curing leaf (and autumn tree foliage), are at a substantially different concentration than in other leaf.

Persistent chlorophyll does not easily clear with kilning (though it may be bleached away with sun exposure), and always causes a noticeable taste in the smoked tobacco.

Bob
 

drinkthekoolaid

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When they say the term "shoe shin" to darken the leaf, are they applying something to the outter wrapper?

I have heard Cigar reviewers state you can tell if it was "shoe shinned" by a discoloration right below the burn line. Not sure if this a real thing.

wrapper-different-colors-explained.jpg
 

GreenDragon

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When they say the term "shoe shin" to darken the leaf, are they applying something to the outter wrapper?
I have heard Cigar reviewers state you can tell if it was "shoe shinned" by a discoloration right below the burn line. Not sure if this a real thing.

I've heard nasty rumors of less reputable companies painting their "Maduro" cigars with a darkened tobacco extract. Many times this transfers off the cigar an onto your lips and fingers.
 

deluxestogie

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That rumor seemed to be true during the "cigar boom" in the late 1990s, when adequate supplies of maduro wrappers were nowhere to be had. But with that revelation back then, and the mini-scandal that ensued, it't not likely continued as a common practice.

Incidentally, I've had my fingers discolored by some of my own very dark leaf. So that's not a reliable indication of adulteration.

Comment on the German chart: it's a lot of BS, and is generally incorrect about everything.

Bob
 
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