I am once again asking for help with my dying seedlings

[manfisher]

My seedlings are seeming to get worse, in fact, several of them have died this week and my healthy ones are starting to turn pale as well. The first picture is my healthiest tray though it is starting to turn yellow and pale. The second picture is my unhealthy tray, the VA there were doing good but they're starting to turn yellow and pale as well. The third pic is my setup. I water both trays about twice a week by putting anywhere from 1/8" to 1/4" of water in the tray for them to absorb upwards. I will check the bottom roots ever other day to three days and the soil down there is moist, never dry or too wet. The top surface of the soil was so hard and dry that one day ago, I began to mist it to dampen it with a spray bottle as a supplement to the bottom up watering. The leaves began to droop a bit but I top down watered them with a spray bottle yesterday and they sort of perked up overnight but are still very sickly looking and pale. I have 2500 lumen grow lights that have white (on 99% of the time) and then blue and red (on probably 1% of the time for experimenting). I'm really at a loss, some people have said I am watering too much but when I hold off on the watering, they decline even more and some people say that I am not watering enough. I seriously have no idea what to do at this point. Advice?

 

[Knucklehead]

I fill my trays about 1/3 full with water. Then I let the soil dry out. No moisture in the bottom. Dry. Then I water again. I feel this encourages roots to spread down and out searching for moisture. Then I water to about 1/3, the water in the tray will last 2-3 days. You can see the water in the tray. When the soil is dry, dry, water again. I don't see plant stress when I do this. Later, during hardening off, I intentionally stress them out, make 'em cry for mama. I strarve them, leave them out in a gale, slap them around a little bit. Outside life is hard plant babies, wear a helmet.
My Miracle Grow Seed Starting mix comes with just a tad of fertilizer. It can't come with too much fertilizer or it would burn up newly sprouted seeds. Those nutrients tend to run out at about the 2 week mark and I start fertilizing with 20-10-20 orchid fertilizer at about 1/2 strength and a tablespoon of epsom salts per gallon. I don't use the epsom salts regularly, just when the plants turn pale and I don't know what else to do. Epsom salts can turn it around.

 

[manfisher]

I fill my trays about 1/3 full with water. Then I let the soil dry out. No moisture in the bottom. Dry. Then I water again. I feel this encourages roots to spread down and out searching for moisture. Then I water to about 1/3, the water in the tray will last 2-3 days. You can see the water in the tray. When the soil is dry, dry, water again. I don't see plant stress when I do this. Later, during hardening off, I intentionally stress them out, make 'em cry for mama. I strarve them, leave them out in a gale, slap them around a little bit. Outside life is hard plant babies, wear a helmet.
My Miracle Grow Seed Starting mix comes with just a tad of fertilizer. It can't come with too much fertilizer or it would burn up newly sprouted seeds. Those nutrients tend to run out at about the 2 week mark and I start fertilizing with 20-10-20 orchid fertilizer at about 1/2 strength and a tablespoon of epsom salts per gallon. I don't use the epsom salts regularly, just when the plants turn pale and I don't know what else to do. Epsom salts can turn it around.

Thank you! I have been looking for this answer everywhere and you'd be surprised how little information there is about how much and how often to water

 

[GreenDragon]

I agree with @Knucklehead it's probably time to start adding fertilizer to your watering regimen. I use Miracle Grow at 1/4 strength. Also, you should be running all the LEDs whenever the lights are on - White, Red, and Blue. White is for human eyes, the red and blue are what the plants use for photosynthesis.

 

[manfisher]

I fill my trays about 1/3 full with water. Then I let the soil dry out. No moisture in the bottom. Dry. Then I water again. I feel this encourages roots to spread down and out searching for moisture. Then I water to about 1/3, the water in the tray will last 2-3 days. You can see the water in the tray. When the soil is dry, dry, water again. I don't see plant stress when I do this. Later, during hardening off, I intentionally stress them out, make 'em cry for mama. I strarve them, leave them out in a gale, slap them around a little bit. Outside life is hard plant babies, wear a helmet.
My Miracle Grow Seed Starting mix comes with just a tad of fertilizer. It can't come with too much fertilizer or it would burn up newly sprouted seeds. Those nutrients tend to run out at about the 2 week mark and I start fertilizing with 20-10-20 orchid fertilizer at about 1/2 strength and a tablespoon of epsom salts per gallon. I don't use the epsom salts regularly, just when the plants turn pale and I don't know what else to do. Epsom salts can turn it around.

Do you have any idea how much water (in gallons) seedlings need per week?

 

[wruk53]

There are many things that could be causing your issues: Too much/too little water, soil/water ph too high/too low, lousy starting mix, city water, too much/not enough fertilizer or lousy fertilizer, lights too close or too far away. It's very difficult to diagnose from pictures. Just looking at your light setup, it seems to be adequate. I suspect your starting mix might be your main problem. If your soil is getting hard when it's dry, then it's probably too dense. If that's the case, you could have plenty of moisture after watering but not enough air. Probably no way to fix that other than starting over with a loose and airy mix. Roots need both moisture and air to thrive and at the stage of your plants, they need very little fertilizer. I feel for you and hope you get it figured out.

 

[ProZachJ]

When I struggle with something new, I like to keep starting more seeds and trying out different approaches till I find something that works well. Even if you don't grow all the plants to maturity the practice, learning, and notes will benefit you next year.

I've struggled to have success with my veggies in those hex cells in the past so I stopped using them.

I agree about the potential your soil mix may be too dense, hard to tell from the pictures but not seeing much perlite or other lightening components.

For my 10x20s with 50 cell peat pots using promix, I ended up finding that about 2.5 cups of water in the bottom every other day was about right. This year, 35mm peat plugs seemed to perform the best for my veggies starts so I'll probably use my extra tobacco seeds to try them out in those as I wasn't 100% satisfied with the peat pots and promix.

I agree about keeping the reds and blues on.

 

[manfisher]

There are many things that could be causing your issues: Too much/too little water, soil/water ph too high/too low, lousy starting mix, city water, too much/not enough fertilizer or lousy fertilizer, lights too close or too far away. It's very difficult to diagnose from pictures. Just looking at your light setup, it seems to be adequate. I suspect your starting mix might be your main problem. If your soil is getting hard when it's dry, then it's probably too dense. If that's the case, you could have plenty of moisture after watering but not enough air. Probably no way to fix that other than starting over with a loose and airy mix. Roots need both moisture and air to thrive and at the stage of your plants, they need very little fertilizer. I feel for you and hope you get it figured out.

I might save some of my seedlings that are the healthies and move them into solo cups with dirt and holes in the bottom and then start fresh with new seeds. Do you think it is too late to start a new batch? I am in the Pacific Northwest so our growing season is probably late June - September or mid october

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I don't think it's too late.