Seeking help/tips on making WLT Virginia tobacco smoother

[btenn4]

Hello! New to the forum, apologies in advance if I am a bit scatterbrained on this first post, but in short I was wondering what strategies any of you may suggest on making WLT Virginia leaf tobacco smoother.

It's been a trial and error process for me figuring out which tobacco I like/dislike but out of everything I've tried I definitely prefer brighter/sweet flue cured Virginia tobacco flavor. I don't like the flavor of Burley or any darker or air cured leaves.

I've tried WLT's Virginia Blend Select (without including any Burley) and really like the flavor but it's not very smooth to me. Even after following the directions on applying casing, the blend was still really harsh, it feels like razor blades are going down my throat on the inhale and leaves me coughing. Also the nicotine content was higher than what I like for an everyday smoke. Not sure if the harshness is due to the darker colored Virginia leaves, maybe I should have left them out? I actually also finely chopped a couple of light yellow leaves from the blend and kept them separate to inject in a cigarette tube and it was still very harsh.

Long story short, what are some ways I can make the Virginia leaves smoother outside of the included casing spray solution from WLT? I've read some posts saying that a solution of water mixed with sugar/honey may help? Other posts online that I read suggest toasting the tobacco. Not sure if that's a good idea on Virginia leaves or not, I know it's done often on Burley to make a Lucky Strike type of blend. Mainly I'd like to just take the rough throat hit out of the blend because I really like the flavor.


Thank you for reading and for any help you may provide!

 

[deluxestogie]

Welcome to the forum. Feel free to introduce yourself in the Introduce Yourself forum. You may wish to scan through the topics in our Index of Key Forum Threads, linked in the menu bar.

Bob

 

[Hemlock]

I am no expert but have been quite interested to learn as much as I can

Tobacco casing and flavoring is a complex but achievable goal. There are many constituents that can adjust smoothness and harshness. Licorice extract and citric acid are reportedly smoothing.




Many cigarette casings have licorice and other ingredients. Here's Marlboro Red



Casings and flavorings are very dilute and lightly misted on whole leaf. Aging works well too.

Toasting can be done with heavily moistened but not wet, leaf and put in convection oven at about 260 F for a short while -- like less than 10 mins. Moisten again until pliable and let sit in a baggy for a few hours or more to even out humidity.

Smoking leaf that is somewhat moist is better for harshness than bone dry.

Blending really makes a difference. Though you may not like burley or dark air cured on their own, adding a pinch, like 5-10% to Virginia makes pH more balanced and pH neutral which should make it smoother.

I've found the lemon Virginia is smoothest which is the lightest yellow leaf. Turkish (basma or Izmir) can also be mild and aromatic but add only small amounts to Virginia. Samsun has seemed a bit stronger.

I recommend you browse this excellent forum for many days and see what your research discovers. There is so much information and references to follow up on for your experimentation.

 

[Alpine]

Welcome to FTT

pier

 

[btenn4]

I am no expert but have been quite interested to learn as much as I can

Tobacco casing and flavoring is a complex but achievable goal. There are many constituents that can adjust smoothness and harshness. Licorice extract and citric acid are reportedly smoothing.
View attachment 57203

View attachment 57204

Many cigarette casings have licorice and other ingredients. Here's Marlboro Red

View attachment 57202

Casings and flavorings are very dilute and lightly misted on whole leaf. Aging works well too.

Toasting can be done with heavily moistened but not wet, leaf and put in convection oven at about 260 F for a short while -- like less than 10 mins. Moisten again until pliable and let sit in a baggy for a few hours or more to even out humidity.

Smoking leaf that is somewhat moist is better for harshness than bone dry.

Blending really makes a difference. Though you may not like burley or dark air cured on their own, adding a pinch, like 5-10% to Virginia makes pH more balanced and pH neutral which should make it smoother.

I've found the lemon Virginia is smoothest which is the lightest yellow leaf. Turkish (basma or Izmir) can also be mild and aromatic but add only small amounts to Virginia. Samsun has seemed a bit stronger.

I recommend you browse this excellent forum for many days and see what your research discovers. There is so much information and references to follow up on for your experimentation.

Great info, much appreciated! By chance do you know if Maryland 609 has the same affect as Burley does as far as "balancing" the pH of the Virginia? I've never tried Maryland, how does the flavor compare to Burley? My understanding is that it's a bit lighter than Burley, I'd go for it if it doesn't have that typical earthy/sourish flavor that Burley usually has.

Also, between Lemon, Bright Leaf, and Red Virginia is there any difference in flavor between the 3 on their own? Or is flavor basically the same just higher nicotine content (Red higher and Lemon lower)?

 

[deluxestogie]

Flue-cured Virginia produces a more acidic (lower pH) smoke (more sour) than air-cured tobaccos, which tend toward producing more alkaline (higher pH) smoke (more bitter). Among flue-cure varieties, the pH of the smoke tends to gradually increase as the priming level ascends up the stalk. And different priming levels provide different dominant aromas.

Most varieties of Maryland tobacco are somewhat milder than most varieties of burley. Maryland tobaccos tend to be more hygroscopic (moisture retaining) than burley, aiding in the retention of flavorants, casings and top-dressings—nearly universal in commercial tobacco products.

The pH of tobacco smoke gives a sense of tongue-bite toward the front of the tongue when lower, and tongue-bite toward the rear of the tongue when higher. Trial and error blending of flue-cured Virginia with either burley or Maryland can usually achieve a "neutral" tasting smoke pH that has no tongue bite. I aim for that no-bite zone in all of my pipe blending. I never use flavorants, casings or top-dressings. My preference is for the natural aromas of tobacco.

Beyond that, I'm hesitant to launch into highly subjective descriptions.

Bob

 

[btenn4]

Flue-cured Virginia produces a more acidic (lower pH) smoke (more sour) than air-cured tobaccos, which tend toward producing more alkaline (higher pH) smoke (more bitter). Among flue-cure varieties, the pH of the smoke tends to gradually increase as the priming level ascends up the stalk. And different priming levels provide different dominant aromas.

Most varieties of Maryland tobacco are somewhat milder than most varieties of burley. Maryland tobaccos tend to be more hygroscopic (moisture retaining) than burley, aiding in the retention of flavorants, casings and top-dressings—nearly universal in commercial tobacco products.

The pH of tobacco smoke gives a sense of tongue-bite toward the front of the tongue when lower, and tongue-bite toward the rear of the tongue when higher. Trial and error blending of flue-cured Virginia with either burley or Maryland can usually achieve a "neutral" tasting smoke pH that has no tongue bite. I aim for that no-bite zone in all of my pipe blending. I never use flavorants, casings or top-dressings. My preference is for the natural aromas of tobacco.

Beyond that, I'm hesitant to launch into highly subjective descriptions.

Bob

That clears up some things, but I'd say the problem I ran into wasn't tongue bite, really it was a really rough throat hit from the rawness of the Virginia, which I felt in my trachea. I might try playing with other casings, maybe a sugar/water mixture and see what effect that has.

 

[Knucklehead]

Adding orientals at 5-15% could tame down the flue cure and add a little bit of a floral flavor.
Did you sample a blend of flue cured and burley or just sample the burley by itself? The burley can alter the bite of the flue cured.
my blend:
40% flue cured
25% burley
20% maryland
5% dark air
10% oriental
neutral pH balance, I don't detect a hard tongue bite or throat hit. Plenty of flavor layers with the five different classes of tobacco and no need for flavorants.
edit: I can't smoke straight or heavy flue cured it bites my tongue so bad it hurts for days.

 

[anon]

I am no expert but have been quite interested to learn as much as I can

Tobacco casing and flavoring is a complex but achievable goal. There are many constituents that can adjust smoothness and harshness. Licorice extract and citric acid are reportedly smoothing.
View attachment 57203

View attachment 57204

Many cigarette casings have licorice and other ingredients. Here's Marlboro Red

View attachment 57202

Casings and flavorings are very dilute and lightly misted on whole leaf. Aging works well too.

Toasting can be done with heavily moistened but not wet, leaf and put in convection oven at about 260 F for a short while -- like less than 10 mins. Moisten again until pliable and let sit in a baggy for a few hours or more to even out humidity.

Smoking leaf that is somewhat moist is better for harshness than bone dry.

Blending really makes a difference. Though you may not like burley or dark air cured on their own, adding a pinch, like 5-10% to Virginia makes pH more balanced and pH neutral which should make it smoother.

I've found the lemon Virginia is smoothest which is the lightest yellow leaf. Turkish (basma or Izmir) can also be mild and aromatic but add only small amounts to Virginia. Samsun has seemed a bit stronger.

I recommend you browse this excellent forum for many days and see what your research discovers. There is so much information and references to follow up on for your experimentation.

When you see diammoniam phosphate, that is big hint. That is a necessary nutrient for yeast based fermentation with dark molasses. It looks to me like Marlboro does a yeast fermentation to their casing. Which is exactly what I’m doing right now. I have a batch of casing fermenting with champagne yeast. I had a massive breakthrough about this subject late the other night when reading a bunch of tobacco research papers. I think most — if not all — good casings are basically rum worts. I’m going to experiment with different alcoholic concentrations (from 2% to 12%) and different fermentation times. This yeast based fermentation of the casing is not to be confused with the leaf fermentation that does not involve yeast.

 

[Juxtaposer-]

I just use a 2% citric acid solution on my flue cured tobaccos.

 

[btenn4]

Adding orientals at 5-15% could tame down the flue cure and add a little bit of a floral flavor.
Did you sample a blend of flue cured and burley or just sample the burley by itself? The burley can alter the bite of the flue cured.
my blend:
40% flue cured
25% burley
20% maryland
5% dark air
10% oriental
neutral pH balance, I don't detect a hard tongue bite or throat hit. Plenty of flavor layers with the five different classes of tobacco and no need for flavorants.
edit: I can't smoke straight or heavy flue cured it bites my tongue so bad it hurts for days.

I've tried WLT's high heat threshed Burley which came with the Virginia Blend Select. I didn't use a lot of it in my blend but I did apply casing to it beforehand. The casing was very chocolatey but once it evaporated it had the usual kind of Burley type taste slightly earthy/sour/bittery. Most Burley I've tried had that same type of flavor profile, like D&R Two Timer gold (40% Virginia, 60% Burley). I don't really like the earthy flavor that Burley gives, and it also seems to affect the body of the smoke, making it thicker.

I've tried WLT's Izmir, it's very unique to me, I've never had a brand name cigarette with that type of aroma. It's interesting, but kind of perfumey for my taste.

I think my preference is more toward straight Virginia blends which I believe British cigarette brands I enjoy center around (Dunhill, Rothmans, etc.). Outside of those, I also used to really like Marlboro Virginia Blend back before it was discontinued.

I noticed in your blend you use Maryland. How would you describe its flavor, and how is it similar to or different from Burley?

 

[Knucklehead]

I've tried WLT's high heat threshed Burley which came with the Virginia Blend Select. I didn't use a lot of it in my blend but I did apply casing to it beforehand. The casing was very chocolatey but once it evaporated it had the usual kind of Burley type taste slightly earthy/sour/bittery. Most Burley I've tried had that same type of flavor profile, like D&R Two Timer gold (40% Virginia, 60% Burley). I don't really like the earthy flavor that Burley gives, and it also seems to affect the body of the smoke, making it thicker.

I've tried WLT's Izmir, it's very unique to me, I've never had a brand name cigarette with that type of aroma. It's interesting, but kind of perfumey for my taste.

I think my preference is more toward straight Virginia blends which I believe British cigarette brands I enjoy center around (Dunhill, Rothmans, etc.). Outside of those, I also used to really like Marlboro Virginia Blend back before it was discontinued.

I noticed in your blend you use Maryland. How would you describe its flavor, and how is it similar to or different from Burley?

Maryland has a totally different flavor to me than burley. Milder and I would say "softer" in terms of impact. Maryland may be a better choice if you don't care for Burley but you wish to experiment with blends.

 

[btenn4]

I just use a 2% citric acid solution on my flue cured tobaccos.

Not sure if what I did was wrong, but I had a fresh lemon in my refrigerator and I juiced it and diluted the lemon juice with water 50/50 and sprayed it on my flue cured Virginia and let it it air dry thoroughly. It ended up working great and made my tobacco very smooth, took out the harshness.

 

[Juxtaposer-]

Not sure if what I did was wrong, but I had a fresh lemon in my refrigerator and I juiced it and diluted the lemon juice with water 50/50 and sprayed it on my flue cured Virginia and let it it air dry thoroughly. It ended up working great and made my tobacco very smooth, took out the harshness.

This is one of the best ways to add citric acid to tobacco. You win!