Settling into a whole-leaf lifestyle: RMO

[Nothing Clever]

Introductions are HERE

After “moving on” after drying days, I went & did more rounds of sun-warming & demoisturizing with everything, ending w/ it all being @ the same stage AFAICT - dry but pliable, not crunchy, rolls very well, burns well sometimes.

My rolling kit consists of a RAW-branded Rizla-style frame+web roller, RAW papers, 8mm & 6mm filters

Learning to roll ‘em the way I want ‘em, and it’s trial & error. If I roll a regular-size cig (8mm), I can only smoke about half at a time, which is okay; w/ 6mm I get a slim, roughly half the weight, and I can smoke the whole thing - but I have a problem getting the fill correct: too little & it burns too fast, too much & the filter falls out. It seems to work out best if I roll the shreds & filter for a while before wrapping it in paper…but I honestly DON’T know if it supposed to work that way.



I just rolled these 5…they all feel reasonably firm, but A softened up a lot when lit, and burns hot & fast if I take a full puff

B shortened itself, not enough tobacco, but seems firm enough; not going to smoke all these *now*, this is just an example of my results & I’ll report back.

E represents a problem I’m having more & more often, which seems to be me misfeeding the paper, and I can’t figure out how I’m doing it: I de-crease the paper, keep the shreds & filter tight with tension on the rolling mat, & roll up slowly & carefully. Possibly it’s just this pack of papers

Does anyone have tips or advice based on their years of rolling? Thoughts on filters? Thoughts on papers? Thoughts on getting to predictability?

I’ve been thinking a lot about papers lately, so I’m also curious what y’all think about the various types/offerings on the market & what your favorites are

Preciate y’all being here, hope my questions are old/boring

Thanks for everything

 

[Knucklehead]

I can't roll worth a flip. Have you ruled out tubes and an injector?

 

[TigerTom]

If you're continuing to use the little hand roller, I recommend applying deluxestogie's approach to rolling cigars: roll one, smoke it, roll one, smoke it, etc. You'll quickly get a feel for a good roll. It doesn't take long. I used to smoke Stokkebye Turkish Export (Virginia and Samsun blend) in rollies when I wanted a quicker smoke than my pipe would allow. It took about a pack's worth to get a feel for it.

 

[Nothing Clever]

It’s an expense I don’t need…happy to be able to afford to smoke some. By happenstance, I had access to papers & a roller, got some Bugler…I don’t mind it, either, I just like to do things well & I enjoy getting better at things - that is a long way of saying I never really (recently) considered an injector.

I adapt. I improvise. I say things directly sometimes.

 

[Nothing Clever]

If you're continuing to use the little hand roller, I recommend applying deluxestogie's approach to rolling cigars: roll one, smoke it, roll one, smoke it, etc. You'll quickly get a feel for a good roll. It doesn't take long. I used to smoke Stokkebye Turkish Export (Virginia and Samsun blend) in rollies when I wanted a quicker smoke than my pipe would allow. It took about a pack's worth to get a feel for it.

I have been doing that…I also will roll up 3-5 at a time for the practice, & the additive experience; today’s 5 were a practice run to see if I could change how I roll with the 8mm filter. Just exploring, which raises questions & gets me wondering

I’ve rolled up close to a pack in the last week (I’ve actually been smoking *more* lately due to testing, but still much less than my former pack-a-day) & I’m getting enough feel for loading the roller that I’m wondering about how to improve, so I guess I’m ‘keeping up’.

Very confidence- building, thanks!

 

[TigerTom]

The filter does add an extra variable. I never messed with those, so I can see how they might cause a bit of a problem.

This video was interesting:

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nUewKefDt6o


The poster commented that the amount of tobacco needed to be matched to the size of the filter, and that one needs to get used to the tobacco being used, whatever it is. He makes a couple other points that I believe might help.

 

[Nothing Clever]

Thanks, I’ll check it out…I’m a LOUSY hand roller, that’s why the machine. Without that, I’d…get a pipe again, I guess

Wish I knew what happened to the pipes I had…marriage is hard

 

[ShiniKoroshi]

I use the same roller but with TOP 70mm papers. I trim the excess on the end to give a nice clean end to the cigarette. Also, shorter paper = shorter smoke and cheaper than the 1-1/4 papers. Shag and short flake work well, longer pipe shred I have filling and draw issues with. So, you might want to try taking some of your shred and cutting it again into little rectangle/square shapes. Also, flat shred can be problematic. Once you cut the shred into smaller pieces, take a small amount and ball it up*, repeat. Once your pile is balled up then break it up. You should notice that the pile you started with is smaller and more compact. *Doesn't work well if very dry.



I know the pack here is good because just a little sticks up when I close the roller. With fingers on both rollers I roll forward first then in the normal direction before adding the paper.


I do "roll one, smoke one" but not always. When I roll a dozen or so I notice the first few are smaller/tighter until the rolling belt loosens a bit. To "roll one...." it needs to be already loose. So I use the barrel of an old BIC pen* cut to length to keep in the roller between cigs. *My particular pen barrel (background below) is .309" (7.84mm). If you need more diameter add a layer of masking tape.



Filters: I find that trying to roll a cig with filter is a PIA, especially the stiff cardboard filters. A small wad of cotton is a better filter and will easily compress when rolled. You can use what's left over from that pen barrel to make a cigarette holder and place the cotton filter in there. My approach is a 1" section of hobby brass tube, .345"x.012 (wall thickness) which has an I.D. of .318" (the diameter of a cigarette) and a bit made from the plastic insulator of a 12 gauge electrical connector with the small end flattened a bit.



Im sure you already know that about half the cost of whole leaf RYO is paper and filter.

 

[Knucklehead]

These hand injectors at WLT work surprisingly well. Add some tubes and you're off and running.

Powermatic Mini Cigarette Injector

This is the smallest manual injector in Powermatic’s series of ryo and myo machines…

wholeleaftobacco.com

 

[Nothing Clever]

The filter does add an extra variable. I never messed with those, so I can see how they might cause a bit of a problem.

This video was interesting:

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nUewKefDt6o


The poster commented that the amount of tobacco needed to be matched to the size of the filter, and that one needs to get used to the tobacco being used, whatever it is. He makes a couple other points that I believe might help.

That’s for true hand-rolling, no machine…this is great because like I say, I’m really bad @that, & there are good tips here, so I’ll be watching this again - Thanks!

I use the same roller but with TOP 70mm papers. I trim the excess on the end to give a nice clean end to the cigarette. Also, shorter paper = shorter smoke and cheaper than the 1-1/4 papers. Shag and short flake work well, longer pipe shred I have filling and draw issues with. So, you might want to try taking some of your shred and cutting it again into little rectangle/square shapes. Also, flat shred can be problematic. Once you cut the shred into smaller pieces, take a small amount and ball it up*, repeat. Once your pile is balled up then break it up. You should notice that the pile you started with is smaller and more compact. *Doesn't work well if very dry.

View attachment 55590

I know the pack here is good because just a little sticks up when I close the roller. With fingers on both rollers I roll forward first then in the normal direction before adding the paper.
View attachment 55591

I do "roll one, smoke one" but not always. When I roll a dozen or so I notice the first few are smaller/tighter until the rolling belt loosens a bit. To "roll one...." it needs to be already loose. So I use the barrel of an old BIC pen* cut to length to keep in the roller between cigs. *My particular pen barrel (background below) is .309" (7.84mm). If you need more diameter add a layer of masking tape.

View attachment 55592

Filters: I find that trying to roll a cig with filter is a PIA, especially the stiff cardboard filters. A small wad of cotton is a better filter and will easily compress when rolled. You can use what's left over from that pen barrel to make a cigarette holder and place the cotton filter in there. My approach is a 1" section of hobby brass tube, .345"x.012 (wall thickness) which has an I.D. of .318" (the diameter of a cigarette) and a bit made from the plastic insulator of a 12 gauge electrical connector with the small end flattened a bit.

View attachment 55593

Im sure you already know that about half the cost of whole leaf RYO is paper and filter.

Plenty of great tips here, too, Koroshi-san!

Love the shred prep you suggest: when I tried it I I realized it was much like bruising herbs in the kitchen, for which I put the herb in one palm & grind it with other thumb. Works great with this, too. Discovered I could do it two-handed by breathing into the tobacco in my hands (add moisture) & grinding like that.

Results are fluffy but co-operative, easy to level, easy to roll. Your remark about knowing your pack is good is very helpful, gives me a thing to gauge by. Result tastes good, burns better, cooler

I’m using pre-made cotton filters, 8 & 6mm, they also give me standard dimensions to work in. Another expense…but a minimal & to me reasonable investment in my health, and makes the rolling process easier. An advantage I didn’t notice til you mentioned it, I’ve been keeping 3 8mm filters in the roller when I not using it, so I can close it & keep the mat in place at the same time. Nice to know it has the other benefit!

Just ordered more papers, which is more outlay, but nothing compared to store-bought. No idea how long my half-pound end result will last me at my current rate, but I can easily see myself being happy into July as is, needing nothing more than maybe another bag of filters ($7)…against 732 retail for the same period. Makes it easy to put aside for my reorder.

Thanks so much for the ideas

 

[Nothing Clever]

Good to know, & thanks - I know my hands won’t last forever, I’ve been hard on ‘em, but that’ll be an easy option, ought to make room for one while they’re still so cheap

 

[johnny108]

Maybe a corncob pipe, or a homemade bamboo pipe?
Cheap, reusable…..

 

[ShiniKoroshi]

Maybe a corncob pipe, or a homemade bamboo pipe?
Cheap, reusable…..

Corncob is a really good idea here.

 

[KroBar]

I used the rolling machine too, for about a decade. I could roll by hand faster, but they ended up being more consistent, and I'd roll 12 at a time for the day (had a little case to put them in).
I didn't use a filter, it ended up just being too fiddly to mess with, and I couldn't be bothered after a few tries. I ended up liking filterless better as well.
A new rolling machine takes a little time to "break in " (I think the plastic stretches a bit, and it gets stickier from the glue). Then after a while (months), the plastic stretches too much and stops rolling as well (then it breaks. It gets brittle). Moisture content of the tobacco, rolling tightness, and the amount you use all effect the draw.
Just keep at it. It'll all come together with practice. You'll get the feel for it.

 

[Nothing Clever]

I smoked filterless for the first half of April - wasn’t bad or anything, but I’m old & I’ve smoked for some 55 years; the doctor sez I have emphysema, everyone wants me to quit…but I have cut my daily consumption from 15-20 a day to 3-5, so everyone’s happier than they were; all in all, the filters seem like a reasonable step. I will likely end up quitting, but for a long time, smoking helped me manage near-unbearable stress - now, it just an occasional pleasure that actually helps me relieve stress, & I’m enjoying it like I haven’t in years

Tell you though, after doing all that hand-grinding on an ounce of shred today, I can totally see why Knucklehead went with the hardware cloth for his shredding needs…. Here’s a question: that reminded me of rubbing up the flake tobacco I used to smoke in England, is that the sort of rubbing I should have been doing, instead of the fluffing, the lifting & separating I first did?

Good night, gents - thanks again

 

[KroBar]

I definitely recommend trying a pipe then. If you're not fiendin' for the cigs, it might be just what you're looking for.
You don't have to inhale the pipe smoke to get a good feeling from it. It just takes a little longer than the cigs.

 

[manfisher]

I definitely recommend trying a pipe then. If you're not fiendin' for the cigs, it might be just what you're looking for.
You don't have to inhale the pipe smoke to get a good feeling from it. It just takes a little longer than the cigs.

I second this, I would highly recommend taking up a pipe.

 

[Nothing Clever]

Thanks to the guidance & suggestions, my rolls are leveling out, becoming more predictable & consistent

One minor thing that’s helped is I’ve changed papers

Not that there’s anything wrong w/ the RAWs, but I got a trial pack of ‘ultra-thin’ Elements, which may or not be rice paper. Compared to the RAW, the Elements paper is ultra not-there…it’s almost like I can feel the paper missing from the smoke; it also rolls better/more predictably for me…for anyone who cares about things like that

I appreciate the pipe recommendations, but I just got me enough papers to get me thru a time of tariffs…. I did smoke a pipe once upon a time, but that time, those friends, that me are all dead now, and the pipes disappeared (that hurt). I’d like to stick with what I can do & what I still have for now. I’ve had enough changes in the last 10 months to use up an entire life, so I’ll stand pat.

I read pipe & pipe tobacco threads, it’s all interesting.

 

[burge]

I have a crank injector. That way I can have a taylor made smoke. Your cut is what is making it burn fast. Also when fishing I tend to roll them a little lose to burn faster and don't need all the tobacco. Price of a pack of papers is almost the same price as tubes

 

[Nothing Clever]

Hey, y’all!

Not exactly a log entry, more an update

Cigs/day holding steady @ 3
Enjoyment of smoking holding steady @ just fine

Improved preparation of the shred thru practice + example ( Koroshi) has made a big difference, my is rolling much more consistent & produces better-built cigs. I associate fast/hot-burning w/ loose-packed now, which has also led to better ‘construction’.

Interesting side-effect is the speed with which I can now whip out 5-10 smokes. I like to roll 5 at a time, it helps me improve more from roll to roll as opposed to just doing one at a time - and smoking them shows me where I’m still short

I do like the flat rice papers more, they burn clean & roll smooth.

I still have right about 7 ounces remaining & I’m starting to think seriously about my next order. I was talking about getting the sampler next, but I think I’d rather narrow my focus instead & play mix’n’match with fewer ingredients first.

That is looking like another lb of the Va Blend, plus one each of Va red tips & an oriental (Basma / Izmir). I hope y’all will share your views on those as standalones & as blendmates.

Yes, I read all the reviews left @ WLT, but not everyone leaves reviews

Hope all y’all are doing well, are healthy & happy!