Willamette Valley, Oregon

[BaccaChew]

Hello, first post here.

Am anxious to convert my "Chobies Gold" plants into chew, but it may be the wrong type of tobacco. Bought the seeds last winter from a classified ad in Countryside Magazine and small stock journal. 3 bux delivered.

Phenotypes all over the place. Low squat ones and tall ones. Most have in common a yellow flower. One phat plant in particular tastes better raw than all the rest, so may use that one for seedsource next year. Not sure if raw flavor translates to tastey chewing tobacco flavor!

Took some 21-year old seeds out of storage (mayo jar) to see if they would sprout. Within 3 days most all the rusticas were up. Today, around 8 days later I now notice the tobaccum x glauca's are still viable. Made that cross in 1990.

Will spend more time reading this forum. Hope I can contribute something.

Larry

 

[deluxestogie]

Welcome to the forum. It seems you have a lot of experience to share with us. The thought of chewing on rustica makes my molars throb. Your "Chobies Gold" appears to be a random mixture of rustica varieties (or seed collected from unprotected, open pollinated plants in a mixed garden). I would love to see a thread on the technique you used to make your specific crosses.

If you'll click on "My Profile" in the upper right, and add your location to your profile, then that will appear in all your future posts.

bob

 

[FmGrowit]

Welcome to the site. I had similar luck with some old seed a few years ago. The one I was really hoping for was a 50 year old White Burley, but no luck with 50 year old seeds.

 

[BaccaChew]

Your "Chobies Gold" appears to be a random mixture of rustica varieties (or seed collected from unprotected, open pollinated plants in a mixed garden).
bob

So yellow flowers means rustica? or is it the random phenotypes that suggest it?

I queried the vendor by phone recently and all he had to offer was "a variety of Virginia, which is mostly for cigarettes and some cigars, grown in Michigan" and that it was 6th generation seed. I assume he means he has grown it for 6 seasons in Michigan.

I am betting it does not have a trace of rustica in it, but that your other guess is right -- "seed collected from unprotected, open pollinated plants in a mixed garden".

The very squat phenotypes are very handsome, looking like they will yield just as much as the taller pheno's. They seem to be mottling to yellow sooner than the rest of the taller types. Might be a good thing.

This year I will only cross the two squat ones with each other, and the two taller ones together. Plus the one that tastes better will get selfed. Next seasons growout of the selfed plant will tell alot. Oh, and some deep red "alata" genes (from an ornatmental cultivar) to the tastier one too. F2's of that would be interesting.

Started the rustica too late this year to have viable pollen for breeding, I think. I will have to attempt that next year. It'd be interesting to re-create a version of "del-gold" with the objective of finding something I find chewable. Might also work in a Greenwood version of rustica-chew if anybody here can advise for or against Greenwood. JL Hudson has the seed right now.

 

[BaccaChew]

Welcome to the site. I had similar luck with some old seed a few years ago. The one I was really hoping for was a 50 year old White Burley, but no luck with 50 year old seeds.

Thank you both for the welcoming, both of you!

50 year old seeds? That has to be some sort of record. I have heard of people supercharging "iffy" seed with light potassium nitrate soak along with pressurized incubation environment -- think 2 liter soda bottle with a schrader valve.

I tried around 100 seeds of the glauca cross, but it looks like only one might make it. There is green showing, but it might lack the energy to throw off the seed pod. No biggy really. That cross was only an experiment long ago. Turns out the resulting plants flower profusely but will never set a seed. They are mules. (It is possible their fecundity could be restored by doubling their genes with surflan or treflan.) But they picked up the frost tolerance from the daddy glauca pollen. Momma was a Monte Calm yellow, from Hudsons seeds.

What really suprised me was the rustica's nearly all germinating! Some very long lived seeds, them.

 

[deluxestogie]

Crosses between N. tabacum and other species (producing the mules you mention) sometimes have bizarre chromosome numbers. (Example: http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/10/445.extract, in which you can only read the first page--abstract--without paying.) I believe (though I'm not sure) that N. tabacum is a tetraploid, with 48 chromosomes in somatic cells, while most other species of Nicotiana have diploid somatic cells, with 24 chromosomes. So your cross may have been trying to match gametes of 24 chromosomes with gametes of 12 chromosomes. (Horses and donkeys have differing chromosome numbers, and the occasional mule is fertile.)

Bob

 

[BaccaChew]

I believe (though I'm not sure) that N. tabacum is a tetraploid, with 48 chromosomes in somatic cells, while most other species of Nicotiana have diploid somatic cells, with 24 chromosomes. So your cross may have been trying to match gametes of 24 chromosomes with gametes of 12 chromosomes. (Horses and donkeys have differing chromosome numbers, and the occasional mule is fertile.)

Bob

I think you are right. I did not have internet in 1990, but a good ag-library would have helped I guess!

 

[BaccaChew]

This cross could have been viable had I found a way to use unreduced gametes from the glauca side, they would have been the correct ploidy needed to match with the tobaccum.

Now I discover on the internet that lilly and other flower breeders have successfully used Treflan and Surflan to double the ploidy of entire plants. These herbicides are readily available.

I bet I was attempting a frost tolerant, perinneal, nicotine bearing plant.