us grown oriental comparision?

[driftinmark]

just a question that I had to ask...... does the homegrown versions of yenidge, xanthi, basma, and samsun taste like the ones we can get overseas?.......

I have a feeling this is going to be a subjective question, but I have read some things that say the orientals grown here dont even compare.....just wondering is it worth it?

I have tasted some wonderful blends containing yenidge and basma they are incredibly good, can we grow the same things without the goat droppings and the volcanic soil?....

thanks for any answers....I will be trying to grow some next year....

Mark

 

[FmGrowit]

I've grown quite a few different Oriental varieties. I think there is a place in the world for both import and domestic. In my experience, Orientals have a huge range in flavor and aroma. Samsun 15 is at the upper extremes for perfume flavor and Ottoman is at the opposite extreme.

All of the Oriental I've grown have been planted like Burley or Filler varieties which makes them grow pretty big. Traditional Oriental is planted at about 4 times the density of American tobacco crops...which causes the plants to grow very small.

 

[SmokeStack]

I have a sample of Yenidje that came from Greece and it is spectacular - definitely my all time favorite. It has a distinct and pronounced flavor that I have never experienced before. This year I have planted Yenidje just as my other tobaccos - as FmGrowit said - spacing them apart three feet and between four foot rows. The plants and leaves are very large whereas the sample from Greece were very small - no more than 3 to 4 inches long. I guess I can answer your question after I harvest and cure at the end of the season. I will definitely report my findings.

 

[Tom_in_TN]

Re: us grown oriental comparison?

I planted Xanthi Yaka and Izmir Ozbas (thanks for the seeds deluxestogie) every 16" in 4 rows, 1 foot apart.

I have never smoked either of these but they are the real deal. Seeds are from GRIN (via deluxestogie) so there is no doubt about their authenticity. Enough was planted so that a few people can try the leaf and see what they think compared to whatever they had in the past.

Xanthi Yaka plants are about 4' to 5' to the crows foot, Izmir Ozbas plants are mostly 4' to 7' to the crows foot, some of the smaller 4' plants are still growing and no flower bud has formed yet. Leaf size appears to be good, not too large, not real small. Perhaps for the first time, to my knowledge, there will actually be some ootz leaves available for those who care about that.

These plants are natural grown. No chemicals of any kind. No goat urine, no goat droppings and there has never been any volcanic activity in the area. Also, no chemical fertilizers, pesticides or any other type of 'cides' used in the dirt they are growing in. There is a possibility that I would use BT, which is not a pesticide, but only on the Izmir Ozbas bud heads that are still forming on the small 4' plants, and only if the budworm moths show up again this late in the season. The reason for using it would be to make certain a good amount of ootz leaves can be harvested from the Izmir Ozbas plants. I will disclose that if it is needed.

So, to anyone who cares, there will be Xanthi Yaka and Izmir Ozbas leaf, including ootz leaves this season. We will see if these plants can be successfully grown outside of the traditional regions and have some great flavor.

Izmir Ozbas - tip leaves on a 7' plant


View of the Xanthi Yaka

 

[Tom_in_TN]

Re: us grown oriental comparison?

Now, to give credit where it is due, remember deluxestogie has already grown these varieties and found them to have great flavor, a very delicate and rare flavor. This is what interested me in growing these 2 Orientals, which was the mild, delicate taste and smoke.

We need to discover if these plants can be grown outside their traditional region and still have the pleasing, pleasant qualities that made them a favorite of so many people. To answer all the questions about the flavor, quality and ability to raise them in this area is why I wanted to preclude any affect from the typical growing methods that use chemicals. We understand why the commercials need to do it, so no offense it meant to wards them, but a large number of growers are going in a different direction, especially the growers here on FTT. So, no chemicals were used in this grow-out, so just like deluxestogie's grow, they were grown with natural fertilizer.

Now, what about the soil? Does it have a major affect on the flavor and quality? Well, we will see about that.

 

[johnlee1933]

Re: us grown oriental comparison?

Now, to give credit where it is due, remember deluxestogie has already grown these varieties and found them to have great flavor, a very delicate and rare flavor. This is what interested me in growing these 2 Orientals, which was the mild, delicate taste and smoke.

.

Tom, I assume you will have seed of both. If you find one is noticeably milder than the other I would appreciate a few seed to try next year (my continuing quest for a mild cigar.) Thanks,

John

 

[Jitterbugdude]

The only way to tell for sure is for everyone to send me some of their Xanthi Yaka. I will smoke it, compare it to mine and the others I receive and report back. Hurry now, this generous offer expires in 10 years!

I will say this though. I have smoked Xanthi Yaka from Bob and have smoked my own. They both tasted the same. Keep in mind though that geographically speaking, me and Bob are neighbors. Xanthi Yaka grown in Texas might taste different than Vermont.

 

[Tom_in_TN]

I have a nice little patch of these 2 varieties growing and as said above, "Enough was planted so that a few people can try the leaf and see what they think compared to whatever they had in the past." So, there will be samples sent out. It is meant for those who have had it in the past and liked it, are curious to know if it is as good as many claim it is, and would like to see these grown in larger amounts. There may be some folks who would like a bit larger amount, more than a sample. Let's see how the harvest and curing part goes.

Whenever I tend to this little patch a thought keeps popping up over and over in my mind, "How in the world could anyone raise an acre, or even a 1/2 acre of these plants unless they had extra help?" To me, it seems these plants require more tending than most of the other varieties. When they are planted close together, to keep the leaf size small, it is delicate work. I have not been able to start work on a row and get to the end before wanting to take a break or nightfall descends. The aroma of the leaves does keep me going back for more.

 

[deluxestogie]

Last night, with all this talk about Xanthi Yaka, I rolled a tiny, pure cigar (~3.5" x 30 ring) of middle-leaf Xanthi Yaka, from the 2011 crop, that had been kilned a month, then aged in my humidor for almost 1 year. It's not a great burner, but it burned well enough. It was mostly non-floral, smooth as a baby's bottom, and carried that distinctive Yenidje aroma. Even with a natural Xanthi Yaka leaf binder and wrapper, it was milder than any American cigarette, though less acidic, and with no bite. It does not resemble a traditional cigar taste. The queen of tobaccos! If Smyrna and Izmir leaf are rated a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10--10 being the strength of Samsun, the Xanthi Yaka would earn a 1 or 2.

Regarding comparing US grown to that grown in Macedonian Greece, my leaf was in better physical condition, was more consistently color-cured (i.e., no green leaves and green spots), and costs a whole lot less.

Bob

 

[Tom_in_TN]

Re: us grown oriental comparison?

Well, that is all good news, Bob. That little cigar you rolled seems to me to be a very nice size. There will be some ootz, upper and middle leaf to sample out of my little patch. I know you will have a busy time sampling all the tobacco you are raising now, but you will need to smoke more Xanthi and Izmir, and on a more consistent basis. Done in the name of investigative research of course since I will need considerable help sampling it and determining how to improve my harvesting, curing and blending skills. I suppose there is nothing one can do about the burning qualities of the Xanthi. It could blended with different leaf of another mild tobacco, other orientals or Little Dutch. On the other hand, if it burns well enough on its own then why mess around too much with the queen of tobaccos? So, what would be the king of tobaccos? Your subjective opinion of course.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Re: us grown oriental comparison?

. I suppose there is nothing one can do about the burning qualities of the Xanthi. QUOTE]

The Xanthi Yaka I grew this year burns fine. I fill my pipe, light it and then smoke like a chimney. It also tastes pretty good mixed 50:50 with Little Dutch. Not to be a blasphemer but... I 'll take BSS-Maden any day over Xanthi Yaka!... OK.. go ahead and stone me if you want.
Randy B

 

[Tom_in_TN]

Hey, you 'blasphemer' get outta here!!! Really, that is great news and I'll probably grow some of the BSS-Maden next season since that seems to be another good variety. Does it NEED to be grown in multiple rows and close together?

Thanks for the heads-up on that 50:50 blend with Little Dutch, in a pipe or could be rolled-up too I guess....gotta be mm..mmm good. Must be why I've got the Little Dutch growing in the row next to the Xanthi Yaka - synergistic energy or something like universal knowledge must have prompted me to do it that way.

 

[istanbulin]

Jitterbugdude sent me some little samples of Maden and Canik tobaccos (shredded). I smoked them by rolling a cigarette. Maden had some real "Maden" aroma but Canik was completely different than Turkish growns also it was very strong. Maden was strong too but not stronger as Canik. I asked him about the strongness of these tobaccos then I got the answer " fertilization ". Fertilization definitely made them stronger in nicotine. I can say that my TN90s are milder than his Caniks.
BTW, Maden tobaccos are very well for stand alone use but Canik is not a good tobacco for a stand alone use. If you add some Canik to your blend even with small amounts it will improve the taste significantly, it's famous with its distinct fragnance. (of course, I'm talking about the Turkish growns but Jitterbugdude's Maden is ok for a stand alone use)

... Now, what about the soil? Does it have a major affect on the flavor and quality? Well, we will see about that.

Of course, it's very effective on flavor and quality. I growed some TN90 this year like an oriental here, they have a real clear flavor (resemble mild black pepper) and their smell (in leaf form) is resembling Maden. But if you send some of my leaves to a real commercial Burley grower, he will say " what's this crap ? " because of the smaller leaves and lower nicotine
I have to add some information with the soil and climate. In Turkey tobacco growing areas are stated by government. It's not allowed to grow (commercially) tobacco out of this areas to prevent Turkish tobaccos from quality loss.

BTW, like tomatoes, beans and other vegetables also other cash crops show different caharcterisitcs when they're grown in different soils and climates.