Mullein as a coumarin source

[Frazeri]

Hi everybody,
Lately I was trying to guess a blend that could resemble to St. Bruno... I more or less started from the 'infrared" recipe by Chinavoodoo (thanks!), and I must say it was somehow close, bu it was obviously missing the soapy/lemony taste. I believe that a part of it is due to some coumarin (tonka bean, maybe?). I was then looking around for other possible coumarin sources, and I found out that mullein (verbascum thapsus) was one. I already knew it's safe for smoking, it was a component of an herbal cigarette blend I was trying some time ago, and also I had still some ready to smoke left... furthermore it grows wild here around
Well, I just shredded it and added a small percentage, let's say around 10 to 15 percent, to the blend... the result wasn't bad at all, still quite raw, but very interesting. I guess it could be more or less the soapy part of the blend...
Now I'm curious about the differences between mullein, deer tongue, or tonka bean... has anyone ever made a comparative test? I only know few commercial "soapy" tobaccos, and is quite difficult to get the deer tongue or tonka bean here around...

 

[deluxestogie]

The "soapy" smell of soap is actually from the lavender, which has been added to soap for centuries, as a preservative. [Pure soap—saponified fat—does not smell "soapy".] The "soapy" smell of Latakia blended pipe tobacco seems to come from certain components of the assortment of wild and cultivated Mediterranean scrub herbs and brush that are used in the firing process. You might look through this list (which I compiled for home-firing "Latakia"), and try some of the "correct fragrance" possibilities.

Bob

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Hi everybody,
Lately I was trying to guess a blend that could resemble to St. Bruno... I more or less started from the 'infrared" recipe by Chinavoodoo (thanks!), and I must say it was somehow close, bu it was obviously missing the soapy/lemony taste. I believe that a part of it is due to some coumarin (tonka bean, maybe?). I was then looking around for other possible coumarin sources, and I found out that mullein (verbascum thapsus) was one. I already knew it's safe for smoking, it was a component of an herbal cigarette blend I was trying some time ago, and also I had still some ready to smoke left... furthermore it grows wild here around
Well, I just shredded it and added a small percentage, let's say around 10 to 15 percent, to the blend... the result wasn't bad at all, still quite raw, but very interesting. I guess it could be more or less the soapy part of the blend...
Now I'm curious about the differences between mullein, deer tongue, or tonka bean... has anyone ever made a comparative test? I only know few commercial "soapy" tobaccos, and is quite difficult to get the deer tongue or tonka bean here around...

Interesting you say this. I have some beautiful 7' tall mullein plants in my yard and I was contemplating curing them.

 

[Frazeri]

The "soapy" smell of soap is actually from the lavender, which has been added to soap for centuries, as a preservative. [Pure soap—saponified fat—does not smell "soapy".] The "soapy" smell of Latakia blended pipe tobacco seems to come from certain components of the assortment of wild and cultivated Mediterranean scrub herbs and brush that are used in the firing process. You might look through this list (which I compiled for home-firing "Latakia"), and try some of the "correct fragrance" possibilities.

Bob

Thank you, but I probably didn't express myself clearly, my English has limits and I just translated literally from Italian, where "saponato" (literally soapy) refers to kinda Kendal style, they should be treated with tonka bean, as far as I understood...

 

[Frazeri]

Interesting you say this. I have some beautiful 7' tall mullein plants in my yard and I was contemplating curing them.

Just hang'em upside down and dry'em out! =)
It's very mild and easy to smoke, in a cigarette blend has a quite neutral profile. I didn't expect it to be that flavourful in pipe... I found it somehow similar to the "tonka part" of St Bruno. If I find some "chemical lemon", we're almost there! lol
Also I read you already tried deer tongue, it would be interesting to make a comparison...

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Just hang'em upside down and dry'em out! =)
It's very mild and easy to smoke, in a cigarette blend has a quite neutral profile. I didn't expect it to be that flavourful in pipe... I found it somehow similar to the "tonka part" of St Bruno. If I find some "chemical lemon", we're almost there! lol
Also I read you already tried deer tongue, it would be interesting to make a comparison...

I think I would endeavour to cure them brown like with tobacco. I did that with deerstongue and it was far superior to that from the store.

 

[Frazeri]

I think I would endeavour to cure them brown like with tobacco. I did that with deerstongue and it was far superior to that from the store.

That's pretty interesting as well! Never thought about it... I just suggest you to dry "normally" a small portion as a control test.

 

[Frazeri]

After some further research and practical experiences, it seems I was badly wrong...
First of all, the aroma I was looking for is probably rose geranium instead of coumarin and lemon, and the St Bruno should be maybe a "Lakeland style".
Before discovering this, I was trying to case some mullein with homemade lime and lemon alcohol based extract, but it didn't work: the smell was inviting, but through the smoke you get only the "dirty side" of the lemon flavour, loosing all its freshness.
The good side remains that mullein itself seems to be an interesting blending ingredient!

 

[Frazeri]

A small update, even if that's more about St Bruno than mullein, actually...
I found rose geranium essential oil, and made a try with the same blend as before. That’s it! This time for real...
Geranium is definitely the casing I was looking for: with one drop for about ten grams of Infrared blend, the result is quite close to my original intent. Only problem, the geranium mellows up the blend hiding the dark fired, I'll try to increase their ratio...

 

[stu]

Maybe you could also try Galium odoratum. You can just dry the leaves and blend it with the tobacco. The is very nice its like a vanilla but different almost like a vanilla, almond fusion. Its very easy to grow. If you plant it you have almost no care of it depending on the climate they dont want the ground to be to dry.

 

[AromatiX]

A small update, even if that's more about St Bruno than mullein, actually...
I found rose geranium essential oil, and made a try with the same blend as before. That’s it! This time for real...
Geranium is definitely the casing I was looking for: with one drop for about ten grams of Infrared blend, the result is quite close to my original intent. Only problem, the geranium mellows up the blend hiding the dark fired, I'll try to increase their ratio...

Is the rose geranium essential oil non toxic to smoke? I have been looking for that soapy Lakeland type flavor but am not sure what to get that would be safe to smoke

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Both rose and rose geranium are safe for children. I see no reason why either would suddenly become toxic when smoked. I use both. It's available commercially. Never noticed any issues.

 

[AromatiX]

Both rose and rose geranium are safe for children. I see no reason why either would suddenly become toxic when smoked. I use both. It's available commercially. Never noticed any issues.

Just wondering about the essential oil part as I heard some essential oils can be too concentrated or cause reactions, not sure, I'm new to this lol.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Just wondering about the essential oil part as I heard some essential oils can be too concentrated or cause reactions, not sure, I'm new to this lol.

Looking over my old recipes, an amount around 0.5% w/w in a blend of 9% rose oil is sufficient, so that's a ratio around 1:2000 oil to tobacco+water

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Looking over my old recipes, an amount around 0.5% w/w in a blend of 9% rose oil is sufficient, so that's a ratio around 1:2000 oil to tobacco+water

So if you put 4g of tobacco in a bowl, there is around 2mg of rose oil.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

So if you put 4g of tobacco in a bowl, there is around 2mg of rose oil.

Smoked over half an hour, that's 0.067 mg/minute.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Smoked over half an hour, that's 0.067 mg/minute.

Only an olfactory bulb is going to detect that, in my opinion.

 

[AromatiX]

Only an olfactory bulb is going to detect that, in my opinion.

Awesome thanks !

 

[Frazeri]

Maybe you could also try Galium odoratum. You can just dry the leaves and blend it with the tobacco. The is very nice its like a vanilla but different almost like a vanilla, almond fusion. Its very easy to grow. If you plant it you have almost no care of it depending on the climate they dont want the ground to be to dry.

Thanks, good to know... I love both almond and vanilla!
I'll have to plant it myself though, it seems it grows wild everywhere in Europe but Sardinia!

 

[Frazeri]

Both rose and rose geranium are safe for children. I see no reason why either would suddenly become toxic when smoked. I use both. It's available commercially. Never noticed any issues.

I can witness it too... I'm lately smoking quite often the above mentioned blend, with no issues at all. It doesn't become not even harsher.