Trials and tribulations of my first attempt

[Bex]

Well, my mammoth run is finally finished - the end result was not as bad as I expected. No brightleaf, of course, but many of the leaves are brown, and a few are brown interspersed with bits of very light green - those that were in the 'evil corner'. I am re-assessing the freezer. I found that one of the fans that I put in fell on its back - I am going to secure these glued on to little stands so that they stand upright. I am also going to do my next run with a bit less leaf, in the hopes that I can get this down to a 7 day run, rather than lingering through 12 days. I think that one of my problems is that the floor of the freezer is 2 levels - the deeper part is about 2 feet deep, and then there is the part under which the motor sits, which is only about 18 inches deep. If the leaf in the deep part extends well below the part where the motor is, there is little room for the air to circulate there, so I believe it becomes almost like two separate chambers. I am going to make sure that there is good air space under all, so that I can get good circulation.
So, undaunted by my succession of failures, tomorrow, I shall start again.....

 

[leverhead]

Something to think about with a tape measure in hand and since it's days as a freezer are over. Would it gain anything to turn it on end? The top door would become a side door and you might need to make some real vents. The leaves of flue-cure varieties can get pretty long, you might get more space with it turned on it's side.

 

[DGBAMA]

Another thought, with the fans, your heat doesn't have to be in the middle. Use the low spot for the crock pot and let the fans keep the air even.

 

[Bex]

Ah, all good points above - yes, I have thought about putting the freezer on its side, which would allow for longer leaves...but less leaves, as well. I am a bit selfish...I opted for more leaves. I have just started another run (naturally). I reduced the number of leaves to 100, and made sure that there is at least 6 inches or so of clear space at the bottom of the freezer for the air circulation. The fans are in two opposing corners, unobstructed. For the leaves that I had that would have been too long, I tried the advice of pinning them further down the midrib so that they would 'loop over'. Sadly, it turns out that they didn't really 'loop' but instead 'broke' when the freezer lid came down, so a number of them dropped to the bottom of the freezer - into the crockpot, over the fan, etc. Of course! I took all out, fixed it up again, and now am merrily into my run. I moved the stat around so that it is not directly above the crockpot, but in a 'cooler' part of the chamber. I have another thermometer some inches over the crockpot, so that I can tell if the heat is being distributed well. At the end of the last run, it appeared to be distributing better. Sadly, the low spot of the freezer, where the air had been cooler, is just above the hump where the motor sits under the floor. It would be impossible to put the crockpot there, as there would be no room to hang the leaves above it. On the other hand, this might deserve some more thought (for the next run) - putting the crockpot on that shelf with nothing above it, having the fans sitting on either side of it blowing toward the deeper part of the freezer, and having all the leaves just in the deep part. Hmmm....I will have to study this.
It will be interesting to see how the fans, along with all the air space beneath the leaves - and less leaves - regulate this run. The experiment continues, as I work my way toward the 'set and forget' goal....

Actually, after I posted this and re-read it (I imagine you are really supposed to re-read it first), I take back the supposition that perhaps having the crockpot on the shelf would be better - I can't see how I would be able to distribute heat through the hanging leaf to the leaf furthest away. I have just nixed that idea....

 

[Bex]

Well, everything started out fine - the two thermometers were within about 1C of each other, even though they were on different sides of the freezer. RH is good, temp is good (I'm running it just slightly hotter than before, at 35.5 C (95.9F). I was really optimistic, as well seemed to be going fine. Strangely, however, over the last few hours, the temps are moving away from each other - there is now about a 2 - 2.5C (about 4F) difference (I have taken into account the lag time of the crockpot, etc.). Aside from that, all seems ok. I guess I will have to study the position of the fans better (sigh). I wish I could get all these tweaks right......

 

[Bex]

A question: During the yellowing stage, what is the effect of too much RH?? I often find that the RH in my freezer sneaks up to the 99% mark. I am wondering it it is possible to keep the leaf 'too comfortable' - or alive too long - by having the RH too high. Perhaps a 99% RH is something akin to putting the leaf in a vase of water - as you would with cut flowers or some leaf you are attempting to root, where you can keep them alive for an extended period of time just in water. Is this something to consider??
I am now about 36 hours into my run - as usual, the leaf is still pale green, but I am hoping (eternally) that this run is not as long. It is now the yellowing stage that is causing my difficulty, and I am curious as to whether I should drop the RH down a bit....??? Any thoughts?

 

[COLIN]

I think that at 99% the air is fully saturated and unable to withdraw any more water. I think if you went to 90% That gives you a 10% buffer zone.

 

[leverhead]

By the published information, low 90's% is supposed to be normal RH for yellowing. They also say that yellowing is supposed to take two to three days for ripe leaves. Some varieties are supposed to benefit from an extended yellowing time. It all sounds pretty uncertain to me. If the leaf dries out too much before yellowing it stays green, if it doesn't dry out enough it goes brown. If everything is just right.... you get the yellow, orange and reds that you are looking for.

Did you find out if you're fans were still OK and doing their job?

 

[Bex]

Did you find out if you're fans were still OK and doing their job?

I am not sure, actually. My larger fan is on the floor of the freezer, in the corner. So it is sitting level to the base of the crockpot. It is not positioned at an angle pointing up, so I am not sure that it is being effective in moving the warm air that is immediately coming out of the crockpot around. I am thinking about perhaps re-installing it (next run) on the side of the freezer, but level to the top of the crockpot, so that it is blowing directly across it (from about a distance of a foot or so), and leaving an 'alley' between the racks of leaf, so that the fan, and it's access to the top of the crockpot is unobstructed. Sadly, if I move one of the thermometer probes to that evil corner, I can still get a difference of temp from one side of the chamber to the other. Perhaps my problem stems from the freezer being wider than it is high - I can visualize that, with the heat going straight up from the heat source into a chamber that is high and narrow, it might be more efficient than one that is wide and low. This, of course, now revisits the suggestion of putting the freezer on its side.....

Part of my query about the 99% humidity (although I must say that the fans are helping to keep this down, as long as the freezer is vented), is that I imagine that I could probably keep a tobacco leaf green for a much longer period of time, if I stuck it into a glass of water, where it would live off of the water for days (kind of like cut flowers). I wonder if having this much saturation in the freezer isn't 'feeding' the leaf for a longer period of time than I want. Although maybe there is no scientific basis to this thought at all.

 

[leverhead]

Any stirring of the air should help keep things more uniform. Be careful about leaving an easy path for the air. You want to stir as much of the air inside as possible, making an easy path may still leave area(s) with little stirring.

Your glass of water thought is close, the high RH is slowing the water loss from the leaf. For cut flowers, water loss is uncontrolled and you are feeding makeup water from the glass through the stem.

 

[DonH]

The high humidity won't keep the leaf green much longer, the way I see it. If the leaves are in darkness the chlorophyll should dissipate (the yellowing process). That should have nothing to do with the humidity but probably has a lot to do with the maturity of the leaf. And the nitrogen level.

 

[Bex]

I'm about 60 hours into the run, and sadly, there seems to be little difference in the speed in which the leaves are yellowing, despite the fans. The fans are keeping the temps somewhat more regulated, as well as helping to reduce the RH from that 99% standard I've had. It is strange - when I start the run, the leaf goes to pale green rather quickly...and then stays there for days. I think that probably one of the 'solutions' here is to buy faster maturing/curing seed for next year, instead of sticking with my mystery seed, as well as planting out a bit sooner than the beginning of August. I hope that these are the solutions to the problem. I am adhering to the schedules, keeping the proper temps/RH, and the freezer should really pose no problem to the process. I can't think of any other reason why these runs take so long.
Be that as it may, even though the process is taking a really long time for me, I am ending up with cured leaf, albeit brown. I have successfully produced 4 'brightleaf' leaves, which are in a separate bag to the other stuff I have produced, and I'll probably frame, rather than smoke then. Of course, since I was able to get these 4 leaves, the question remains why I am unable to do this with all the rest.....

 

[deluxestogie]

The good news is that the answers are already in this thread.

Bob

 

[Bex]

And the bad news is that my run continues....no thought of 'brightleaf' on this one, of course. The leaves seem to be going from pale green to brown. Funnily enough - or not - the plants that my friend is growing in a legitimate greenhouse, which were transplanted there in June, show absolutely no signs of yellowing on the plant. Really weird. They would be about 6 months old, and are lovely, thriving, flowering...and totally green. In any event, I am still in for the long haul, and expect that, as usual, I will come out of yellowing probably by Friday. If the past is any indication, this usually takes about a week for me to accomplish.
On a brighter note, the aroma of the leaf that I have shredded and bagged is very definitely changing for the better.
Being a victim of a 'siege mentality' (eg. I have 140+ pairs of shoes, under the apparent assumption that, at some point in my life, I will be unable to afford shoes or that all shoe stores will eventually go out of business; this will not be stressful for me, as I have hoarded enough shoes to last my lifetime), I will continue to harvest my plants on the hill for as long as they grow. Having read on another thread that Deluxestogie's crockpot has been operating for 4 years without rest, I am hopeful that my equipment will last the duration of my harvest.....

I have re-read my 'diary', particularly info on my first run where, with only an oven thermostat and thermometer, I was actually able to achieve some brightleaf. Strange that, with the added accuracy of the digital thermostat and hygrometer, things have deteriorated somewhat. During that first run, while I did have a number of leaves that dried green, within 3 days I had some yellowing on others - it also seemed that, initially (and probably due to the inaccuracy of the thermostat) my temps were about 2C higher during yellowing than my current runs. I have been nervous about getting close to that 40C (104F) temp, but I think that on my next run, I am going to try it with the temps slightly warmer - around 98F, rather than the 93/4F that I have been using for the past few runs. I don't know if this will make much of a difference, but it is worth investigating.....

 

[DGBAMA]

104 is not a deadline type number as long as the leaf can't dry (humidity is kept high enough). It is ok to get right up closer. As to the first run working, somewhat, lugs always yellow easiest. The higher the leaf position, the harder/longer yellowing takes.

I would suggest you go ahead and pick your next run of leaves now, so they can be pile cured a few days as a head start on yellowing, while the current run finishes.

 

[Bex]

That's actually a great idea. I hadn't thought of that, and will pick my next run tomorrow - I believe that my current run should be finished by Friday afternoon or Saturday morning, so tomorrow's leaf can go in then. Thanks!

 

[DGBAMA]

Maybe pile the leaves for a few days to get yellowing started, then transfer to the chamber, for the next batch.

As Bob said, many of the answers are in this thread. Lol.

 

[Bex]

The thought of having to re-read 34 pages and sift through everything to find those answers is somewhat distressing. But I also have another thought....One of my friends is doing this along with me, but he removes his midribs before he puts his leaf in the chamber. I would imagine (of course, I could be really wrong with this) that the midrib continues to feed the leaf, and keeps it alive longer. I am going to experiment with my next run (as I am hoping that this one will be finished by late tomorrow) and put some leaf into the chamber with the midrib removed, and see the effect.

I am still haunted by the mystery of why I was able to get a few brightleaf on my very first run, and have been unable to duplicate this afterward, even with better equipment and 'knowledge' of what I'm doing. Yeah, I know, beginner's luck......

 

[ArizonaDave]

The thought of having to re-read 34 pages and sift through everything to find those answers is somewhat distressing. But I also have another thought....One of my friends is doing this along with me, but he removes his midribs before he puts his leaf in the chamber. I would imagine (of course, I could be really wrong with this) that the midrib continues to feed the leaf, and keeps it alive longer. I am going to experiment with my next run (as I am hoping that this one will be finished by late tomorrow) and put some leaf into the chamber with the midrib removed, and see the effect.

I am still haunted by the mystery of why I was able to get a few brightleaf on my very first run, and have been unable to duplicate this afterward, even with better equipment and 'knowledge' of what I'm doing. Yeah, I know, beginner's luck......

I do hope you rediscover what works for you, even if removing the mid rib works!

 

[Bex]

Thanks....I hope I do, too. In any event, I'm not giving up. They are beginning to talk about tax/duty on leaf over here, so succeeding becomes even more important.

As an aside, and I don't know if there's an answer to this, but my friend buys Manitou or Pueblo loose tobacco (similar to American Spirit). The label on it says ONLY Virginia tobacco. Would anyone know what they are using? The tobacco is nice to smoke - is it one type of standalone Virginia??