COLIN
Well-Known Member
Could someone please tell me what sort of material to use to make flower head cover bags.
Bagged Flower Heads
- Thread starter COLIN
- Start date
- Status
Re: Members seed contributions and list
COLIN--Smokesahoy recommended 5 gal. paint strainer bags. There are pictures of them in his grow blog. I looked at them on the Walmart and Home Depot websites and they seem suited to the purpose. They are already made into bags with one open end and the description at the stores said it would filter dust, dirt, clumps and other small particles from paint. The dust part caught my eye. Any paint store should have them. They were about $2 each at Home Depot and $1.10 each delivered from Walmart. At Walmart they were only available online not in the store. However, like I say, any place you can buy house paint should carry them. From the looks of them you place them in a five gallon bucket, pour in the paint and then slowly pull out the bag. Anyway check out the pictures in Smokesahoy grow blog.
COLIN--Smokesahoy recommended 5 gal. paint strainer bags. There are pictures of them in his grow blog. I looked at them on the Walmart and Home Depot websites and they seem suited to the purpose. They are already made into bags with one open end and the description at the stores said it would filter dust, dirt, clumps and other small particles from paint. The dust part caught my eye. Any paint store should have them. They were about $2 each at Home Depot and $1.10 each delivered from Walmart. At Walmart they were only available online not in the store. However, like I say, any place you can buy house paint should carry them. From the looks of them you place them in a five gallon bucket, pour in the paint and then slowly pull out the bag. Anyway check out the pictures in Smokesahoy grow blog.
Re: Members seed contributions and list
Colin,
The industry standard is light-weight synthetic (typically spun) insect barrier material, preferably less than 20% shade. An example is Agribon-AG15, available in the US. Probably any very light grade row cover material would work well. I sew bags that are 2' wide by 3' tall, which is a little small for some tobacco pod heads, about right for most, and too big for some.
Bob
Colin,
The industry standard is light-weight synthetic (typically spun) insect barrier material, preferably less than 20% shade. An example is Agribon-AG15, available in the US. Probably any very light grade row cover material would work well. I sew bags that are 2' wide by 3' tall, which is a little small for some tobacco pod heads, about right for most, and too big for some.
Bob
Re: Members seed contributions and list
The only problem I have with Agribon Is that holes get torn in them . I don't know if it is birds landing on them or grasshoppers eatting holes in them . It does take a while for holes to appear . Well after the flower has dried up or fallen off .
Agribon is the same material we use on outside float bed coverings. I just buy what I need right off the roll.
The only problem I have with Agribon Is that holes get torn in them . I don't know if it is birds landing on them or grasshoppers eatting holes in them . It does take a while for holes to appear . Well after the flower has dried up or fallen off .
Agribon is the same material we use on outside float bed coverings. I just buy what I need right off the roll.
Markw
Well-Known Member
Re: Members seed contributions and list
This year I have used a clear breathable plastic film with micron size holes that lets the moisture escape and keeps the seed pods completely dry. It is more like a mini greenhouse covering the pods. I tried some of the cloth but this got very damp with all the rain we had.
This year I have used a clear breathable plastic film with micron size holes that lets the moisture escape and keeps the seed pods completely dry. It is more like a mini greenhouse covering the pods. I tried some of the cloth but this got very damp with all the rain we had.
Re: Members seed contributions and list
Pretty slick AND nice looking Mark. Where did you get them? What are their dimensions? -- John
Markw
Well-Known Member
Re: Members seed contributions and list
Hi There John
It is called bleed-out film. It is used in carbon fiber lay-up processing you draw the excess epoxy resin out of the job through the film into an absorbent fabric. you should be able to get it at any good boat builder supplies. I just cut it to what ever size I need, and use a good waterproof tape on the edges. I just double tie it at the bottom so I can remove them easy. you just wash them out when you have finished with them and re-use them the following year.
Mark
Hi There John
It is called bleed-out film. It is used in carbon fiber lay-up processing you draw the excess epoxy resin out of the job through the film into an absorbent fabric. you should be able to get it at any good boat builder supplies. I just cut it to what ever size I need, and use a good waterproof tape on the edges. I just double tie it at the bottom so I can remove them easy. you just wash them out when you have finished with them and re-use them the following year.
Mark
marksctm
Well-Known Member
Re: Members seed contributions and list
I've been looking for what I might use next year, and this is slick as Johnlee said.
Please let us know how they held up at the end of the season, and see if uv light breaks them down any.
I've been looking for what I might use next year, and this is slick as Johnlee said.
Please let us know how they held up at the end of the season, and see if uv light breaks them down any.
How large are the particles we are trying to capture?
Markw
Well-Known Member
Re: Members seed contributions and list
Hi Chris
All my seeds are in now, and the bags are fine and don't look like they have been effected by the UV, they will be fine for next year. I have used the un-perferated stuff on cold frames for a few years now and it works a treat . I expect that it will break down over time. I will be using this stuff to protect against frost next year so I can get my plants out early next year.
Mark
Hi Chris
All my seeds are in now, and the bags are fine and don't look like they have been effected by the UV, they will be fine for next year. I have used the un-perferated stuff on cold frames for a few years now and it works a treat . I expect that it will break down over time. I will be using this stuff to protect against frost next year so I can get my plants out early next year.
Mark
Re: Members seed contributions and list
Mark, If you use black landscape cloth on the ground after early tilling and the plastic (or white cloth) to block late frosts you can get a real head start. Too bad tobacco doesn't winter over like garlic and rhubarb.. -- John
Mark, If you use black landscape cloth on the ground after early tilling and the plastic (or white cloth) to block late frosts you can get a real head start. Too bad tobacco doesn't winter over like garlic and rhubarb.. -- John
Is the bleed out film the same thing as "Perforated release film"? I found some for $2.80. I'm guessing that is for a square yard...and it's green.
Release film
Release film
marksctm
Well-Known Member
I'm sure Bob would know the size of pollen, but if Agribon-AG-15 keeps pollen in and bee's out, this would work too.
I've just been seeing posts on holes appearing in the AG-15, but it seems to work though.
Markw,
If you already got a season in with it, then it held up pretty good then.
And it seems you could make them faster than sewing a bunch of bags, and I can't sew worth a damn anyway.
My old man must of been able to sew, he always said he was going to sew my damn mouth shut. But I also thought my first name was God da*n it, in till I was 8 or 9.
Is it easy on the wallet, do you buy it by the foot, or by the roll?
marksctm
Well-Known Member
I wonder what those green bags are made of in the produce departments at the grocery, their supposed to breath.
Now, I think we should get some textiles lesson for this bags 
This is what I know. I did not see agribon closely but I know those materials, most of them are spunbond nonwoven synthetic fabrics. They are generally producted by weight per area. For example, if you buy 200 g/m2 this fabric will be heavy and more tight than 100g/m2. But, if you don't want tears on the fabric heavy fabrics are recommended.
Also there is another option, using point bonded nonwoven fabrics. These are bonded with heat in certain points so their resistance is higher than spunbond fabrics. You may be familiar with this fabric by durable shopping bags. The fabric used in that bags are heavier and not eligible for agricultural applications. But technique is the same.
The structure of point bonded nonwoven fabric,
And how a point bond looks like,
The structure of spunbond nonwoven fabric, (this is a SEM (Scanning Electron Microscopy) image of nanofabric for filtering but I put this here to give us an idea about the structure of the spunbond fabric). In the middle, a PP (polypropylene) spunbond fabric. On the right a protective application by using a spunbond fabric. I believe agribond is a spun bond fabric.
This is what I know. I did not see agribon closely but I know those materials, most of them are spunbond nonwoven synthetic fabrics. They are generally producted by weight per area. For example, if you buy 200 g/m2 this fabric will be heavy and more tight than 100g/m2. But, if you don't want tears on the fabric heavy fabrics are recommended.
Also there is another option, using point bonded nonwoven fabrics. These are bonded with heat in certain points so their resistance is higher than spunbond fabrics. You may be familiar with this fabric by durable shopping bags. The fabric used in that bags are heavier and not eligible for agricultural applications. But technique is the same.
The structure of point bonded nonwoven fabric,
And how a point bond looks like,
The structure of spunbond nonwoven fabric, (this is a SEM (Scanning Electron Microscopy) image of nanofabric for filtering but I put this here to give us an idea about the structure of the spunbond fabric). In the middle, a PP (polypropylene) spunbond fabric. On the right a protective application by using a spunbond fabric. I believe agribond is a spun bond fabric.
Markw
Well-Known Member
Re: Members seed contributions and list
John
Yes I use that stuff over here. it helps a lot in getting the soil warmer and helps the growth in the early stages. I am planning on using this film as well over the black weed membrane with a gap in between this will hold in more heat in the soil. I will plant through the middle of the grow bloc. I just have to water the plastic or if it rains it will always go to the plant and not be wasted on the outer area. Yes I managed to get all the garlic and other stuff planted the other day at least they will over winter.
Don
The release film does not have perforations in it, the bleed out film has them it is made from the same material, and you are correct it does come in some other colors I always get the clear you can get blue and green. there is also something called peel ply that could also be used it is a very fine cloth. When I post you some seeds I will send you a few samples of all the materials.
Chris
I buy it in 1000-ft rolls it comes in either 4 or 5 ft wide. I pay about 60cents a square yard but I do buy all my materials in bulk.
Mark
John
Yes I use that stuff over here. it helps a lot in getting the soil warmer and helps the growth in the early stages. I am planning on using this film as well over the black weed membrane with a gap in between this will hold in more heat in the soil. I will plant through the middle of the grow bloc. I just have to water the plastic or if it rains it will always go to the plant and not be wasted on the outer area. Yes I managed to get all the garlic and other stuff planted the other day at least they will over winter.
Don
The release film does not have perforations in it, the bleed out film has them it is made from the same material, and you are correct it does come in some other colors I always get the clear you can get blue and green. there is also something called peel ply that could also be used it is a very fine cloth. When I post you some seeds I will send you a few samples of all the materials.
Chris
I buy it in 1000-ft rolls it comes in either 4 or 5 ft wide. I pay about 60cents a square yard but I do buy all my materials in bulk.
Mark
I hate to continue touting a product I have no personal experience with but since I don't own a sewing machine i keep coming back to the 5 gal paint strainer bags I saw in Smokesahoy's grow log. They are already formed. The size looks right. They are obtainable at any paint store. They will strain dust particles. My only question is if they will strain out dust particles will they also have a fine enough mesh to contain pollen particles?
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Trimaco-11313-25-5-Gallon-Paint-Strainer-Pack-of-25/21592944
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...=-1&keyword=paint+strainer+bags&storeId=10051
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Trimaco-11313-25-5-Gallon-Paint-Strainer-Pack-of-25/21592944
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...=-1&keyword=paint+strainer+bags&storeId=10051
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Markw
Well-Known Member
I expect that they will work fine, as for the pollen I just can't answer that, I chose to use the film due to the weather conditions I had. I tried the thin cloth and it got damp and heavier and when the wind blew the plants would lean over more. so I changed to the film stuff. they were much lighter and let the sun in which helped the pods mature, plus I could see when they were mature without having to remove the cloth seed bag. I know that pollen can not get in due to the hole size, and there was no condensation inside the bag at any time. I think you should use what you are happy with as long as it does the job.
Mark
Mark
I agree with you 100% Mark, and that's my question. Which of these options will do the job of containing or excluding pollen? None of them seem to have been designed for that specific purpose, so how do we know for sure? I don't think micron size of mesh is given for any of these products, including the one I like, and I don't know the micron size of pollen. It's a dilemna. Agribon seems to be the most popular on this site but I can't find pollen containment listed as a use on any of the websites that sell it. Thus my confusion.
COLIN -- How are we doing so far? LOL
COLIN -- How are we doing so far? LOL
The pollen of N. tabacum is smaller than 53 microns (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00392260?LI=true#page-1), but larger than 32 microns (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1075642/pdf/plntphys00710-0363.pdf).
My assumption is that pollen grains adhere electrostatically to spunbond fabrics. At the end of a season, my Agribon-AG15 bags are well coated on the inside of the fabric with pollen.
Although it would be nice to imagine that the Agribon is impervious to pollen, I'm not sure that it really matters. Although N. tabacum can be wind pollinated, I doubt that wind pollination is at all significant. (Wind pollination works poorly, at best, in corn [maize], which is optimized for wind pollination.) The major source of cross-pollination in N. tabacum appears to be from certain large flying insects and from hummingbirds, which is why a porous insect barrier such as wedding veil seems to work as well as it does.
From the blossom manipulation needed in my intentional crossing experiments, I have the distinct impression that N. tabacum pollen within any individual blossom is not sufficiently matured prior to blossom opening to successfully pollinate its own pistil ahead of the competition. This is in contrast to tomatoes, which are also primarily "selfing" in their seed production, but which seem to mostly complete pollination before the blossom opens.
So, I would guess--it's only a guess--that the paint straining bags would work just fine.
Bob
My assumption is that pollen grains adhere electrostatically to spunbond fabrics. At the end of a season, my Agribon-AG15 bags are well coated on the inside of the fabric with pollen.
Although it would be nice to imagine that the Agribon is impervious to pollen, I'm not sure that it really matters. Although N. tabacum can be wind pollinated, I doubt that wind pollination is at all significant. (Wind pollination works poorly, at best, in corn [maize], which is optimized for wind pollination.) The major source of cross-pollination in N. tabacum appears to be from certain large flying insects and from hummingbirds, which is why a porous insect barrier such as wedding veil seems to work as well as it does.
From the blossom manipulation needed in my intentional crossing experiments, I have the distinct impression that N. tabacum pollen within any individual blossom is not sufficiently matured prior to blossom opening to successfully pollinate its own pistil ahead of the competition. This is in contrast to tomatoes, which are also primarily "selfing" in their seed production, but which seem to mostly complete pollination before the blossom opens.
So, I would guess--it's only a guess--that the paint straining bags would work just fine.
Bob
- Status
