Bunching / Rolling tightness.

[jsullivan99]

Howdy Folks,

I am a very new cigar roller having only produced 30 or so cigars so far. I am however running into issues with bunching/rolling the binder.

I am using tobacco from Whole Leaf Tobacco and use the filler as it is received. For my binder, which is Sumatra binder at the moment, I am giving each leaf a very light/fine mist and then letting it air out for maybe an hour. This leaves the leaf flexible but not so flexible that it is impossible to crack.

Now my question for more experienced rollers: How tight do you bundle your cigars for both free/hand rolling and for pressing in molds?

I am having issues getting a good draw on my cigars and I suspect it could be because of how I am bunching/binding them. I use a rough entubado method and when I roll my binder I try to achieve a final tightness/firmness as I am not using a mold. The problem is that when I roll my cigars this tight they tend too have a plugged draw. When I have rolled less tight my cigars pull okay but the bunch tends to move around a lot when adding the wrapper and the cigars seem very soft and lack rigidity.

In a lot of the videos I have seen of factory production, the cigar rollers seem to bunch the cigars somewhat loose likely to allow for the mold to compress them down a bit. This however is not super helpful in my case as I am not using molds.

Does anyone have advice for bunching/binding when hand-rolling only? I suspect part of my problem may be the case of my binder. Out of the bag the Sumatra binder tends to crack unless I use a double binder.

Any tips/advice would be very much appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[deluxestogie]

'Twas the weekend before Christmas,
and all through the forum
not a creature was stirring...

While awaiting suggestions from other forum members, I'll offer my approach:

• Filler in low case (may crack, but not crumble)
• Binder in medium case (will not crack, is quite flexible, but without much stretch)
• Wrapper in high case (fully hydrated, though not wet. Limp and fully stretchable. Secondary veins can stretch as well.)

With cigars of at least ~44 ring, I am unable to roll a cigar that will not draw—so long as I have the leaf case right. I usually do not use an intubado method, since I feel that the filler needs to be in too high a case for me to do intubado successfully. In my unskilled hands, I always need to double the binder (simultaneous) when I use Sumatra leaf. I usually roll free-hand. But check the numerous cigar-rolling videos linked in the Key Forum Threads.

Bob

EDIT: I prep the selected leaves the night before I plan to roll with them, and stash them into plastic bags.

 

[WillQuantrill]

Not the most experienced torcedor here but I'll give you a tip that helps me. On a free hand roll if the filler starts moving and extending the length of the cigar its going to be too tight. Since you don't have a mold, try applying a double binder. It will help with rigidity but intentionally try a loose roll ya might realize like I did that subconsciously it is difficult to make a loose roll further proving that your technique needs adjustment. Part of the trick here is to keep the filler stationary while the binder goes on. I've noticed entubado gives me the best draw on my home rolls as long as the filler is low case. I will second Bob though, alot of times I get a couple hours to roll but the leaf hasn't been case prepped. I try to prep in a half hour and inevitably the leaf is too wet. Hope this helps.

 

[jsullivan99]

'Twas the weekend before Christmas,
and all through the forum
not a creature was stirring...

While awaiting suggestions from other forum members, I'll offer my approach:

• Filler in low case (may crack, but not crumble)
• Binder in medium case (will not crack, is quite flexible, but without much stretch)
• Wrapper in high case (fully hydrated, though not wet. Limp and fully stretchable. Secondary veins can stretch as well.)

With cigars of at least ~44 ring, I am unable to roll a cigar that will not draw—so long as I have the leaf case right. I usually do not use an intubado method, since I feel that the filler needs to be in too high a case for me to do intubado successfully. In my unskilled hands, I always need to double the binder (simultaneous) when I use Sumatra leaf. I usually roll free-hand. But check the numerous cigar-rolling videos linked in the Key Forum Threads.

Bob

EDIT: I prep the selected leaves the night before I plan to roll with them, and stash them into plastic bags.

Thank you for the information, very helpful. Now that I think about it, I've really only now started having draw issues when I switched to the Sumatra binder. I suppose I am overtightening the roll to compensate for the lack of structure with this leaf. Perhaps it will just take some trial and error with the rolling tightness and case of my binder. Will check out those resources for sure

 

[jsullivan99]

Not the most experienced torcedor here but I'll give you a tip that helps me. On a free hand roll if the filler starts moving and extending the length of the cigar its going to be too tight. Since you don't have a mold, try applying a double binder. It will help with rigidity but intentionally try a loose roll ya might realize like I did that subconsciously it is difficult to make a loose roll further proving that your technique needs adjustment. Part of the trick here is to keep the filler stationary while the binder goes on. I've noticed entubado gives me the best draw on my home rolls as long as the filler is low case. I will second Bob though, alot of times I get a couple hours to roll but the leaf hasn't been case prepped. I try to prep in a half hour and inevitably the leaf is too wet. Hope this helps.

That is good advice to try and intentionally roll a loose cigar. Twisting may also be a problem. I've also been there trying to prep my binder in a rush to roll cigars. I suppose I need to take more time with prep and rolling. Will continue working on my technique and will keep everyone updated. I thought my other endeavor (beekeeping) was a dying art, but information about cigar rolling seems to be even more scarce and more of an art passed from generation to generation.

 

[adamziegler]

If you can roll your filler tight enough to be plugged, it might be high in moisture.

Roll lighter like you mentioned with your binder, and then tighten it up slightly with a paper mold. (Strip of paper temporarily rolled like you would roll leaf) How long it stays wrapped in the paper depends on your leaf moisture and ambient relative humidity. Unwrap the paper... Test draw before final wrap. You can always tighten it up by paper molding again.

Other rolling advice, I compress the leaf into the rolling board, and then roll as opposed to using the binder to create the tightness. The binder holds the pressure I applied to the leaf. Not sure if that is clear or not, but it helps me feel the leaf compression better.

 

[GreenDragon]

In addition to the excellent advice above, I have a few thoughts to add:
1) Never be afraid to stop and completely re-roll a doll if it's not going well. Don't try to "fix it as you go" or try to "make it work".
2) Grade your leaves before rolling. What I mean is, even in a pack of "Binder" leaf, some will be thinner than others and would make a better wrapper, while others will have too many defects to use as a binder; put them in the filler pile, etc.
3) Test draw your doll before you clean up the binding and add your glue. A few quick puffs will save you a lot of grief!

Don't get discouraged - It's just as much Art as Science! Enjoy the journey and have fun.