Comparison grow: Latakia vs. Smyrna

[Jitterbugdude]

It is often said (on the interent so you know it's true.. ) that Cyprian Latakia is actually Smyrna leaf. I was curious so I decided to do a side by side grow. I had intended to wait longer to post anything but I'm already seeing major differences that tell me the two are not one in the same. The Latakia seed came from MarkW ( he got them from a friend that visited Cyprus) and the Smyrna seed came from GRIN.


Although not too well defined in this picture the Latakia are on the right and the Smyrna on the left.
All plants were planted 8 inches apart in 2 rows staggered. These were planted on 07 May.
The Latakia is 7 inches tall while the Smyrna is 11 inches.



A closer shot of the Latakia leaf and a close shot of Smyrna



And one last shot, from ground level




I know there are several others doing a comparison grow so I encourage you to post your thoughts/opinions/observations here.
If you do post observations here please let me know where you obtained your seed, the age of the plants etc.

 

[deluxestogie]

Interesting. Of course, MarkW's seed provider (who traveled to Cyprus), said that his source there was no longer growing Latakia. So the provenance of the seed is hazy at best. My own "Cyprus Latakia" is too small to say much at this point, but the so-called "Cyprus Oriental" which came from the same source is larger (planted earlier), and seems to be some broad-leafed type.

Carefully hydrating some of Don's definite Cyprian Latakia has allowed me to inspect the leaf shape and size. It appears to be a small-leafed basma-type, resembling Smyrna. Unfortunately, with regard to size, one of the British-American Tobacco Company's documents ("...so you know it's true.. ") stated that only the upper 1/3 of the plant's leaves are used to make Latakia, so size of the leaf may be meaningless.

Istanbulin located a source that suggested that Yayladağ may be the variety used for Latakia in Syria. [I guess that should be a permanent past-tense.]

All the tobacco company docs that I've found on the subject are in the following two threads:
http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/1773-Latakia-Production-a-Quest-for-Details
http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads...ish-American-Tobacco-Co-Ltd-(released-papers)

I think that one additional confounding factor may be the decline of Latakia production in Cyprus, simultaneous with the expansion of cigarette varieties. This would present a problem with seed purity in a traditional Latakia grow that did not include pollination control.

I will definitely be documenting what I end up with (both of these varieties, generously donated by MarkW). I believe I still have a small amount of whole leaf Yayladağ from my 2012 grow for comparison.

Bob

 

[istanbulin]

I received same seeds from MarkW too. Now, they grew enough to be examined. It's apparent that it's not an İzmir type. Leaf form is cordate. Stalk form is petiolate with narrow auricles which suggest Bafra, Bursa and other similar types. I've never heard this types of leaves were in use for Latakia production in Cyprus or Syria.

But it's very well known that different types of Oriental tobaccos used to be grown in Cyprus in the past. For example a village in İskele district of Northern Cyprus is called Bafra, the name of a Turkish variety and an old Turkish cigarette brand. I'm not sure if they were growing a Bafra type tobacco but this name was given to this village.



The interesting state is, tobacco farming used to be centered in the same district, İskele. We know there used to be Latakia production in Dipkarpaz town which is located in the same region.



I don't think a cross pollination occured between "Latakia" and other Oriental varieties. Farmers always control cross pollination because otherwise they know they can't sell their "hybrid" tobacco leaf next year. But it might be happen after commercial growing period, by senseless growers.

The only whole leaf Latakia I saw is WLT's, so I can't say this "Cyprus variety" is not a variety grown for Latakia production but I've never heard of a petiolate type tobacco used for Latakia production.

 

[Planter]

Here the shape of the "shekk-el-bint" leaves is somewhat visible (enlarge the first and third picture):

http://dutchpipesmoker.wordpress.com/2013/02/07/syrian-latakia/

 

[istanbulin]

In the larger (zoomed in) photo, leaves seem Kabakulak (sessile) with coarse midribs.



Thanks for the photo.

 

[driftinmark]

I found this article explaining a few things hope its ok to post it here....

http://www.glpease.com/Articles/Latakia.html

hope it helps!

 

[quo155]

Great read...and interesting comparison Jitterbugdude!

I really like how you/we're challenging some of what is thought of as traditions and/or "cant's"...if you follow.

Good stuff!

 

[driftinmark]

I will keep digging on this, so far pease says that its a high nicotine content plant, I cant seem to find the translation for shekk-el-bint.....what I came up with so far is, shell of or the daughter? probably incorrect, but I will keep looking

found an article in spanish, I cant translate, maybe some one here can help?


http://latakiaclub.bligoo.cl/clasificando-tabacos-latakiados

could the tobacco used be a rustica?

 

[deluxestogie]

Here is the page, fed through Google Translate.

https://translate.google.com/transl...cl/clasificando-tabacos-latakiados&edit-text=

Where it says "snuff," read "tobacco," and where it says "sheet," read "leaf."

In general it seems to state that the variety doesn't matter so much as the firing process.

Bob

 

[Markw]

I wish I could be of more help, I am also growing them out side by side, I will try to find out where his family comes from in Cyprus, I think as Bob has said we should just call it a Cyprus oriental and see how it comes out at the end of the season and what it smokes like.
It is good to see they have all germinated and enjoying the fine weather over there.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

could the tobacco used be a rustica?

The literature from the 1880's described it as a Rustica. Although not calling it by name it was described as a short, fould smelling plant with greenish flowers.

 

[driftinmark]

ya I found this part interesting from G.L. Pease

Characteristics of Latakia

Though the original Latakia of Syria, a necessary ingredient of many classic mixtures of yesteryear, and the now more common Cyprian leaf, share a name and a curing technique, these two tobaccos are quite distinct from one another, each having unique qualities, and very different personalities.

Syrian Latakia is produced from the long, narrow leaves of the plant known as "shekk-el-bint." After harvesting, the leaf is sun-dried, then hung in barns to be smoked over smoldering fires of local herbs and woods, imparting the characteristic smoky aroma and distinctive flavor. Shekk-el-bint is a strong tobacco, possessing a hefty dose of nicotine which is partially responsible for the robust "body" of the smoke. After the long curing process, the leaf is a deep mahogany/brown color, with a pungent, earthy, slightly sharp, smoky aroma reminiscent of driftwood campfires on the beach. Its very assertive flavor is spicy and somewhat tangy; perhaps one could even consider it tart, and it can easily dominate a blend if used in large measure, prevailing over all but the most robust Virginias. In small amounts, it mingles delicately with its cohorts; in large quantities, it tends to elect itself to high office. Smoked straight, it becomes downright dictatorial - sensory overload occurs quickly, and the tangy aftertaste lingers on the tongue. It can also create spinning rooms for those not accustomed to or tolerant of large doses of nicotine.

 

[deluxestogie]

So far as I've been able to determine, not a single author of those (otherwise) wonderful tobacco books from the late 19th century ever set foot in Syria. Not a one. So, like us, they were just reporting myth, legends and conjectures heard from others. Constantanides never went there. Dunhill never went there. Sherman never went there. Lowe and Killebrew certainly never went there. It's no better than the "smell of Yara tobacco in the field" nonsense.

Bob

 

[Jitterbugdude]

I agree Bob, we'll probably never know what type of tobacco was really grown in Syria. I'd like to know where the "shekk-el-bint" idea came from, besides the GLPease article.

 

[istanbulin]

One day I'll find myself in Cyprus seeking tobacco growers/producers because of these disputes. But I'm pretty sure information about Syrian Latakia will stay as a myth. "bint (بنت)" means "girl", "el/al" is a proposition generally means "the" but might mean "of/from" and "shekk (شك)" means "doubt/suspicion". So this phrase might mean "suspicion of (the) girl" but it doesn't make any sense to me.

BTW, I looked at my harvested (first primings) Cyprus leaves and they really resemble Bursa (might be another Samsun of bafra type too as I mentioned before). But it's really different than Samsun Maden. I got huge Oriental leaves because of heavy rains this year and it's still raining. So I'm not able to say the actual leaf size of the Cyprus Oriental for now. I wish I planted some Bursa for comparison.

 

[deluxestogie]

Milton Sherman's 1970 book (http://tobaccodocuments.org/nysa_ti...rotation=90&zoom=750&start_page=1&end_page=75) mentions Shekk-el-bint in the production of Syrian Latakia, describing it as a long, narrow leaf.

Bob

 

[rustycase]

Tnx for the comparison pics, Randy!
I think your presentation is more valuable than what may be found in print.

Embellishment, romantic prevarication, and downright lies may be found from many with the funds to hire a printing press!
Even worse is, I read it on the internet! lol

Lately I am discovering it is possible to locate many peer reviewed scholarly papers to support just about any presentation a party wishes to make.

...Your opinion is GOLD!
How's it smoke?


rc

 

[Markw]

I am growing the Cyprus Oriental along side Bitlis, Smyrna 9, Smyrna 23, Izmir Ozmas, and Samson Maden. I would say that is looking more like the Smyrna 9 at the moment the leaf shape being about the same. I am not growing Bursa this year it will be interesting to see what it ends up like. I also found this interesting reading on the story of two tobaccos. It might have been posted on the forum before, but it talks about blending.
http://glpease.com/Articles/Latakia.html

 

[Jitterbugdude]

So far the difference between the Latakia and Smyrna leaf are like night and day. Smyrna is about a foot taller and bloomed one week later than the Latakia. Leaf shapes are different too. I guess the next question would be.. What's the difference between Smyrna, Smyrna 9 and Smyrna 23? and for that matter, Izmir Ozmas?

 

[Markw]

I would have to agree with that JBD, I had another better look at them today and the leaf is different, I am growing them all at 8 inch spacings, I was thinking what is the difference between the 9 and 23, they all have a good way to go yet, no buds showing as of yet.