Flue Cured vs Matured Virginias

[TigerTom]

Hello all,

I'm a bit confused on the subject of Virginia tobaccos.

It is my understanding that flue cured Virginia tobacco is basically ready to smoke once the flue cure is complete even though they might (and would likely) benefit from some aging. Bob has pointed out on several occasions that the primary enzyme is denatured by the heat of flue curing, but there is another that works more slowly.

Then there are "matured" Virginias, such as those that were produced by McClelland. I've noticed that these are much darker than other Virginia tobaccos I've smoked, which tend to be yellow to orange. Are these just flue cured tobaccos have been aged? Is it another process?

-Tom

 

[deluxestogie]

I've never quite figured out what "Matured Virginia" is. My suspicion is that it is a form of Cavendish process. There is no method or degree of aging or maturation that yields that color or aroma.

Bob

 

[TigerTom]

I've never quite figured out what "Matured Virginia" is. My suspicion is that it is a form of Cavendish process. There is no method or degree of aging or maturation that yields that color or aroma.

Bob

Thanks for the quick response. I've tried googling it, but all my search results are for products rather than processes. I didn't think aging bright leaf would darken it, since it doesn't seem to significanly darken anything else. Using a cavendish process does seem possible, but maybe not at too high of a temperature? Otherwise it wouldn't really age much. I have some McClelland 2010 and 2015 that I have been aging some years and are just dynamite now, so something is still happening with these blends.

I did read somewhere matured Virginia was possibly air cured Virginia that was aged for some time. I figured I'd take it to the forum and ask. I'll probably experiment with air curing then kilning some flue cure varieties, since I won't have a flue chamber done in time. (Have a little one on the way, gotta prioritize my finances.)

 

[Knucklehead]

Thanks for the quick response. I've tried googling it, but all my search results are for products rather than processes. I didn't think aging bright leaf would darken it, since it doesn't seem to significanly darken anything else. Using a cavendish process does seem possible, but maybe not at too high of a temperature? Otherwise it wouldn't really age much. I have some McClelland 2010 and 2015 that I have been aging some years and are just dynamite now, so something is still happening with these blends.

I did read somewhere matured Virginia was possibly air cured Virginia that was aged for some time. I figured I'd take it to the forum and ask. I'll probably experiment with air curing then kilning some flue cure varieties, since I won't have a flue chamber done in time. (Have a little one on the way, gotta prioritize my finances.)

If you have plenty of flue cure variety leaf to play with, try sun curing some. I felt that the flavor of the sun cured leaf fell somewhere between air curing and the true flue cure processed leaf. Even after kilning the air cured leaf, I preferred the sun cured leaf over the air cured. I also enjoyed having both purchased flue cured leaf and my homegrown sun cured Virginia’s as a couple extra tools in my toolbox.

 

[TigerTom]

If you have plenty of flue cure variety leaf to play with, try sun curing some. I felt that the flavor of the sun cured leaf fell somewhere between air curing and the true flue cure processed leaf. Even after kilning the air cured leaf, I preferred the sun cured leaf over the air cured. I also enjoyed having both purchased flue cured leaf and my homegrown sun cured Virginia’s as a couple extra tools in my toolbox.

Great suggestion! I'll have more than enough to play with.

How do you recommend going about it? Wilt it in the shade for a day or two then hang to sun cure?

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I had a bowl of a McClelland mature Virginia Christmas edition or something, and it was nearly identical to 2hr pressure cooker flue cured cavendish.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

What Pipe or Pipe Tobacco Did You Smoke Today? [pics]

Waterloo (1970) movie, pipe smoking scene with Prussian Field Marshal Gebhard Leberecht von Blücher, the man who gave the victory to Allies against Napoleon. Rajek's No. 25.

fairtradetobacco.com

This tobacco was kilned for a month, aged 3.5years, then pressed for a month.

 

[Knucklehead]

Great suggestion! I'll have more than enough to play with.

How do you recommend going about it? Wilt it in the shade for a day or two then hang to sun cure?

Yes, yellow it in the shed or shade unless the humidity is low. Under the shed I could open and close the doors to either hold in the proper humidity or hold out the high or low humidity. Toward curing season in Bama the humidity would be low during the heat of the day and higher at night. I could open and close the doors to try and maintain the proper average humidity. The key to yellowing is to keep the leaf alive as it turns from greenish to full yellow. If the humidity is too low your leaf can dry green, and if the humidity is too high the leaf can rot. After it has yellowed you can dry it on down. After yellowing I would string the leaf in full sun and let it hang unless it was going to rain. It would be limp at night and dry more during the day. I stopped when the stems were crunchy dry, then bring them in at night for the final time after humidity made the leaf workable. They didn’t produce yellow leaf like flue cure, but some of the most beautiful colored leaf I’ve seen, colors ranging from golden to orange to red to brown until I kilned them and then they all turned brown. I was disappointed, because, man they were pretty.

 

[tullius]

Then there are "matured" Virginias, such as those that were produced by McClelland. I've noticed that these are much darker than other Virginia tobaccos I've smoked, which tend to be yellow to orange. Are these just flue cured tobaccos have been aged? Is it another process?

Working mainly off Dunhill's Three Year Matured Virginia, my guess is that they moderately press the virginia(s) in hogsheads for 3 years, shake out, shred and blend with virginia cav and an oriental or two, case/top, and vac pack it in the tins. There are at least three distinct colors of tobacco in the tins. Maybe some or all is toasted at some point as well, hard to say.

 

[tullius]

McClelland likes vinegar in/on their virginias: I do too.

 

[Hayden]

I hope it is the right place to ask but i want to be sure i'm getting the point down of virginias.

If i want to make a virginia plugs (like full virginia flake from gawith) with my hopefully good homegrown stuff this year.
I will have to steam for 2-3h like chinavoodoo wrote or toast the flue cured virginia to get away the harshness and make them tasty.

Air cured virginias seem to offer a different profil but if i should have the weather for sun curing them i should do better do that ?

 

[Knucklehead]

I hope it is the right place to ask but i want to be sure i'm getting the point down of virginias.

If i want to make a virginia plugs (like full virginia flake from gawith) with my hopefully good homegrown stuff this year.
I will have to steam for 2-3h like chinavoodoo wrote or toast the flue cured virginia to get away the harshness and make them tasty.

Air cured virginias seem to offer a different profil but if i should have the weather for sun curing them i should do better do that ?

I’m a cigarette smoker and have never made a plug and I’ve never made Cavendish. I have grown Virginia’s and use them in my cigarette blends. I have air cured and sun cured. I prefer sun cured because it tastes sweeter. Flue cure processed will be even sweeter. To remove the harshness I kiln the leaf in my home built kiln which speed ages the tobacco faster than natural aging but with the same results. There are threads here on the forum with different methods and materials to build your own kiln. Natural aging can sometimes require years of letting the leaf sit and wait while kilning only takes about two months. Here is my kiln, be sure to check out the other ways and use what will work for you.

Knuckleheads Wooden Box Kiln Build

I've been meaning to build a kiln for the past two seasons but have just gotten off my sorry ass and decided to do something about it. (Bob's thread kicked off my thinking seriously about it) First, let me say that the cheapest kiln build is one from a free freezer, as the box itself is the most...

fairtradetobacco.com

 

[Hayden]

I’m a cigarette smoker and have never made a plug and I’ve never made Cavendish. I have grown Virginia’s and use them in my cigarette blends. I have air cured and sun cured. I prefer sun cured because it tastes sweeter. Flue cure processed will be even sweeter. To remove the harshness I kiln the leaf in my home built kiln which speed ages the tobacco faster than natural aging but with the same results. There are threads here on the forum with different methods and materials to build your own kiln. Natural aging can sometimes require years of letting the leaf sit and wait while kilning only takes about two months. Here is my kiln, be sure to check out the other ways and use what will work for you.

Knuckleheads Wooden Box Kiln Build

I've been meaning to build a kiln for the past two seasons but have just gotten off my sorry ass and decided to do something about it. (Bob's thread kicked off my thinking seriously about it) First, let me say that the cheapest kiln build is one from a free freezer, as the box itself is the most...

fairtradetobacco.com

Yeah a kiln/flue cure chamber is one of my plans to build in the next time but i read in bobs comments mostly that kilning doesn't do that much to flue cured leaf beside making it darker and moving up the stalk position from a taste side.

My plan is to flue cure and sun cure if the weather is right. If kilning does work and you also have good success with it than i will also do it.

 

[Knucklehead]

Yeah a kiln/flue cure chamber is one of my plans to build in the next time but i read in bobs comments mostly that kilning doesn't do that much to flue cured leaf beside making it darker and moving up the stalk position from a taste side.

My plan is to flue cure and sun cure if the weather is right. If kilning does work and you also have good success with it than i will also do it.

You can flue cure process or kiln from the same box. The flue cure process will just need to reach temps of 165F and starts with green leaf. Kilning reaches temps of 123-128F and is used with already cured brown leaf. Kilning “speed ages” your leaf in a couple months rather than the sometimes years needed to naturally age. You use the same box to kiln your air cure varieties or to flue cure process your Virginia bright leafs (flue cure varieties).

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

My sun cured tobacco this year is really consistent. Its good without aging and has no tongue bite. I feel like I prefer it over flue cured because of that last part. And I think pressed and aged for 6 months, it would produce an excellent flake.

 

[Hayden]

You can flue cure process or kiln from the same box. The flue cure process will just need to reach temps of 165F and starts with green leaf. Kilning reaches temps of 123-128F and is used with already cured brown leaf. Kilning “speed ages” your leaf in a couple months rather than the sometimes years needed to naturally age. You use the same box to kiln your air cure varieties or to flue cure process your Virginia bright leafs (flue cure varieties).

That you can use the kilning box as an flue cure chamber was a great relief to not have to build 2 things. If covid diden't shut down all the buisnesses beside the supermarket here in germany i would already started to building it. I already have the heating controller.

Chinavoodoo:

That sounds really good. I will then definitly try to sun cure a good number of plants if the weather is good. The last summers are definitly hotter than before here in germany and our tomatos also growed well without a big roof above or a greenhouse.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

That you can use the kilning box as an flue cure chamber was a great relief to not have to build 2 things. If covid diden't shut down all the buisnesses beside the supermarket here in germany i would already started to building it. I already have the heating controller.

Chinavoodoo:

That sounds really good. I will then definitly try to sun cure a good number of plants if the weather is good. The last summers are definitly hotter than before here in germany and our tomatos also growed well without a big roof above or a greenhouse.

I hung my leaves in the open until they were mostly yellow, then moved them to a simple structure made with 2x2", and 1x2" lumber. The north side of it was solid black, and the other three sides were a skeleton. It was wrapped in clear plastic. This heated the tobacco much better for finishing the cure. Once the lamina was dry, I moved it into my garage for the stems to dry.

 

[Hayden]

Some little Infos i got from Per Georg Jensen (Blender von Mac Baren he is on youtube) but most of the info is in line with what we talked about in this thread.

Steam pressing is only used for certain flakes and is a shorter cavendish process.
"Toasting is used but not like in the good old days". That was the answer to my question if toasting is less used in pipe tobacco making.