Glycerin question

[1germanlineman]

Just finished another batch of snus/dip. I used one of the recipes from another member with slight modifications. He used glycerin in the cook and alkalized at the same time. I alkalized after the cook. My question is the glycerin better after the cook? They use it in baked products for the same reason so just curious. By the way I used the insta pot method for 3 hrs and the snus looks and feels great. Just waiting a week or so to try it. Thanks

 

[HappyHawaiian]

Just finished another batch of snus/dip. I used one of the recipes from another member with slight modifications. He used glycerin in the cook and alkalized at the same time. I alkalized after the cook. My question is the glycerin better after the cook? They use it in baked products for the same reason so just curious. By the way I used the insta pot method for 3 hrs and the snus looks and feels great. Just waiting a week or so to try it. Thanks

I use the instant pot method too. If you alkalize before you "cook" it, then you can use it right away after cooking. You don't have to wait a week or so to try it. I alkalize before I cook. As for the glycerin, I add propylene glycol and glycerine after the cook. The reason I do that is because I don't know what chemical reaction might take place if I add it pre cook. The other thing is when I do add the glycerin/PG I also add flavoring to it. I add 3% of the tobacco weight of each, however I think that might be too much so I might cut that back on my next batch. So for 100 grams of tobacco I use 3 grams each of glycerine and propylene glycol. And I only do that because I read a post that's how someone else does it. I'd prefer to leave it totally out but I'm trying to prevent mold. I'm still experimenting.

Definitely alkalize before you cook because it makes it easier, less steps, and you don't have to wait a week for it to settle. As for the glycerin, I don't know. I'm actually wondering if I should add my flavoring pre cook, I might try that next time but am hesitant cause not sure of the chemical reaction with the alkalizer during cook.

 

[HappyHawaiian]

Also, if you can't wait to try it or anytime trying a new batch, I'd suggest taking a tiny pinch. Don't take a normal sized dip. It might be stronger than you expect. I took a normal sized dip after making my first batch and thought I was gonna have a heart attack it was so strong. If a tiny size pinch is ok, you can always add more.

 

[1germanlineman]

I like the idea of drying the tobacco in cardboard box. My problem is after cooking and alkalizing I put in licorice root and glycerin in but I don’t feel it’s juicy and creates much juice. Any suggestions for remedies for this? I don’t feel like adding more water is the answer but not sure. It’s plenty moist. Thanks

 

[Anders A]

I like the idea of drying the tobacco in cardboard box. My problem is after cooking and alkalizing I put in licorice root and glycerin in but I don’t feel it’s juicy and creates much juice. Any suggestions for remedies for this? I don’t feel like adding more water is the answer but not sure. It’s plenty moist. Thanks

Is that snus you made?

 

[1germanlineman]

My recipe is 100 grams of combo of burley, Virginia and fire cured, 20 grams of scotch, 1/2 tsp of cocoa, 120 grams of water, 20 of it reserved to dissolve the akalizer after cook, 8 grams sea salt. I add glycerin and licorice root after alkalized. Thanks

 

[1germanlineman]

Is that snus you made?

Yes

 

[Anders A]

Yes

Process the snus after you bake it, in a kitchen assistant, use the same tools you use when kneading dough. But be careful, not too long, start with a minute or so, it can easily get too muddy. I hope the English is correct now

 

[1germanlineman]

Process the snus after you bake it, in a kitchen assistant, use the same tools you use when kneading dough. But be careful, not too long, start with a minute or so, it can easily get too muddy. I hope the English is correct now

Do you have to bake it to dry it out? Can I just grind the whole leaf and skip this step

 

[Anders A]

Do you have to bake it to dry it out? Can I just grind the whole leaf and skip this step

I may have given you an example of something you didn't ask for. I use the kitchen assistant after I bake the snus to get a better consistency on the snus and so that it is easier to shape and not crumbly.

 

[1germanlineman]

I just wonder if that’s why my snus isn’t as juicy as I want it because I’m not drying it completely before processing?

 

[HappyHawaiian]

Strange, I don't have that problem, not juicy enough. Maybe you can try grinding your leaves finer? Or some of it ground really fine like dust and some of it a bit coarser. I cook mine in the instant pot for 4 hours, and leave it in there for another hour and let the pressure release naturally. If you're doing a quick pressure release, that could affect it. I've seen food cooking videos that mention a quick pressure release changes the texture of meat.

I might try 3 hours cook next time because 4 hours is probably not needed.

I don't think the problem is your leaves aren't dry enough. I just leave mine out in bags and boxes for a few days or weeks. When I do grind them, the leaves are still a bit pliable and not bone dry. I mix mostly Burley and Virginia and whatever else I have to throw in, I'm not real picky. Also, if it ends up tasting bad, that's nothing that a lot of flavoring can't fix. I tend to be more accepting of how it tastes and just go with it, if it's not what I expected I either get used to it or flavor it. Eventually I'll figure out a blend that I really like, but in general snus is an acquired taste, so I just adjust to whatever I make.

Whenever I made snus, the taste is always a surprise to me. I'm still new so I'm always trying different blends and additives to figure out what I like and don't like. And if you're adding ground mid rib, you could take that out. For me adding in midrib makes it a whole lot of nasty in terms of both taste and mouth feel. I also put it in my lower lip like American dip, it juices a lot more lower lip than upper lip.

 

[HappyHawaiian]

It also might be possible that the scotch is having some kind of effect. Maybe try the snus without the scotch and see if there's a difference.

 

[HappyHawaiian]

Do you have to bake it to dry it out? Can I just grind the whole leaf and skip this step

Yes you can just grind the whole leaf without drying it out, but then you'd have American snuff. Snusathome has a American snuff or dip video where he doesn't dry the leaves. Thing is, if you are not removing the mid ribs that is most likely your problem. The middle stem of the leaves is pretty nasty and makes the snus taste dry. Some people might like the midrib but to me that's just all kinds of foulness.

 

[1germanlineman]

I remove the midrib. Should have clarified that. I am hesitant to add more water for the juiciness Im looking for. Not sure. I will have to keep tinkering I guess

 

[HappyHawaiian]

I remove the midrib. Should have clarified that. I am hesitant to add more water for the juiciness Im looking for. Not sure. I will have to keep tinkering I guess

You actually have a lot of water in there already. 120 grams of water, plus another 20 grams of alcohol and then you're adding glycerin at what amount I don't know. I'm assuming the alcohol will evaporate though. Maybe you are dehydrated and need to drink more water? Are you putting it in your lower lip? You generate more spit if it's in your lower lip.

I only add an equal amount of water to tobacco flour, no added alcohol. It's fine like that. Sometimes I add propylene glycol and glycerin at 3% each of total batch weight, but it isn't really needed. I just do it to help prevent mold.

It sounds like you're doing everything right, except you add a lot more liquid than I do. Try drinking more water. Or try alkalizing before you cook, don't know if that will make a difference but I alkalize before I cook. No need to set water aside and do a separate mix. Try it with just 100 grams of water and add the alkalizer directly to the water, then mix with the flour and cook it under pressure for 3 or 4 hours. Then let the pressure naturally release and leave it in the instant pot for an extra hour or so to cool down a bit naturally.

Try taking out all the unnecessary stuff, they can be added later. Take out the alcohol and glycerin. Cook the snus and try it, see how it is. Then add stuff, one at a time and see if one of the additives changes things for the worse. Make a basic snus, then add to it so you can figure out what is causing the issue. If it's not a you're dehydrated issue.

The added benefit of pre alkalizing is you can try the snus right out of the instant pot. No need to wait weeks for it to mellow out. You can try it right away, then add in any other additives like the alcohol and glycerin.

 

[Anders A]

Yes you can just grind the whole leaf without drying it out, but then you'd have American snuff. Snusathome has a American snuff or dip video where he doesn't dry the leaves. Thing is, if you are not removing the mid ribs that is most likely your problem. The middle stem of the leaves is pretty nasty and makes the snus taste dry. Some people might like the midrib but to me that's just all kinds of foulness.

I disagree with you. I think, including the midrib in the snus makes the snus much more stable and gives it a better consistency. Of the total weight of the leaf, the midrib makes up about 30% of the weight. And the snus doesn't get too dry at all if you include it. Not including the midrib makes the snus more likely to get sticky. I grind my leaves with the midrib, and I always grind the leaves when they are really, really dry.

 

[HappyHawaiian]

I disagree with you. I think, including the midrib in the snus makes the snus much more stable and gives it a better consistency. Of the total weight of the leaf, the midrib makes up about 30% of the weight. And the snus doesn't get too dry at all if you include it. Not including the midrib makes the snus more likely to get sticky. I grind my leaves with the midrib, and I always grind the leaves when they are really, really dry.

Ok yeah, I figured there are people that like the midrib. From a financial standpoint, I totally get it and that's why I tried adding midrib to my snus. I added 30% midrib and it tastes horrible to me. My mid rib was ground really really fine too. But I think it's really nasty and I have to force myself to finish that batch I made. Snus is an acquired taste, so I guess we can learn to like anything. Just not for me. It might be that you're using the thinner parts of the midrib, I ground up the entire thing. So yeah I'm glad you mentioned that, because some people do like it and it's a lot more cost effective to use the entire leaf.

Since I don't use the midrib, I started buying low grade unsorted leaves. They cost half the price of quality leaves, so if the midrib is 30% of the leaf, I'm still coming out 20% ahead cost wise. Now, I admit, low grade unsorted leaves can be really low quality, swept up off the floor, and a chore to derib and find all the broken stem pieces, but it works for me. But some low grade leaves aren't all that bad, it's a gamble, but in the end, it still makes snus.

I'm just trying to help germanlineman solve his not juicy enough problem. So I'm thinking if you eliminate as many variables as possible, start with plain old pure snus, then add things from there, he can figure out which thing is causing his juicing problem. And stems are definitely different from the leaves, that's one variable that can be removed to try and solve his problem. It could actually be that he's not drinking enough water, who knows, but variables need to be eliminated to zero in on what's causing his issue. I got nothing against stems in other people's snus.

 

[deluxestogie]

Tobacco stem, in various percentages, is common to commercial smokeless preparations. I included CORESTA's smokeless product reference recipes (Appendix pages 95 thru 105) in the Snuff, Snus and Chew book.

What is characteristically different about stem, other than its texture, is that its nicotine content is somewhat lower than that of the lamina.

Bob

 

[1germanlineman]

Thanks for the replies. I drink tons of water. I actually am very health conscious. I only got into snus making because of a DR. Ardis and his work on nicotine. Pasteurized tobacco is safer than nicotine pouches or patches in my opinion. I wonder if too moist of leaf along with the water in the pressure cooker is maybe over cooking the leaf? I use mason jars instead of the roasting bags also. Thanks