Buy Tobacco Leaf Online | Whole Leaf Tobacco

Hardening in hot, arid climates

Status
Not open for further replies.

desert_pioneer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
104
Points
43
Location
Arizona
Currently, I am in the process of hardening plants in a desert climate. My burleys seem to have been able to tough out an hour of sun before i decided it was enough, but the virginias were drooping within 20 minutes.

To any fellow desert dwellers, do you have any tips/advice/knowledge from your past experiences with transitioning from inside/seedlings to outside/transplanting?

(currently seeing upper 90s to low 100s daily - all sun, no rain in weeks, it feels like)
 

Knucklehead

Moderator
Founding Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
12,676
Points
113
Location
NE Alabama
Couple grow blogs from a member in your area. Hope it helps. I read them years ago but can’t remember the content now.
 

docpierce

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2019
Messages
114
Points
63
Location
coastal
While I don't live in the dessert, my area is fairly high elevation and we get about 0 inches of rain from May to November. The soil around these parts turns into a dust block of grayish adobe in the burnished disk of the sun. Leaves can dry to irredeemable crisps when it get over 100.
I find it helpful erect shade cloth over areas in the plot. Not full coverage; just offering some relief from the withering sun.
Also, mist the leaves before it gets too hot- at 10 or 11 o'clock. And again in the evening.
 

desert_pioneer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
104
Points
43
Location
Arizona
While I don't live in the dessert, my area is fairly high elevation and we get about 0 inches of rain from May to November. The soil around these parts turns into a dust block of grayish adobe in the burnished disk of the sun. Leaves can dry to irredeemable crisps when it get over 100.
I find it helpful erect shade cloth over areas in the plot. Not full coverage; just offering some relief from the withering sun.
Also, mist the leaves before it gets too hot- at 10 or 11 o'clock. And again in the evening.

While reading about Connecticut and Sumatra shade leaf, I thought about the feasibility of shade cloths. Ultimately, I decided against it cause I don't trust my handiwork (and it's hot). I will take your advice in misting leaves and I'll definitely water multiple times a day.

My plants will have to be tough suckers.

Does anyone think if I keep the flowers of select plants for dozens of generations, eventually I'd get a plant better acclimated to the desert?
 

deluxestogie

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
25,604
Points
113
Location
near Blacksburg, VA
Please pardon this lengthy excursion into tobacco genetics.

The most effective selection conditions are those that kill a relatively high percentage, but not all, of the plants. But this assumes some degree of diversity in the genetics of a variety. Unfortunately, all stable varieties of tobacco are nearly homozygous (zero heterozygosity). That is to say, there is no handy drought resistance gene hiding in some of them, so there should be little opportunity for finding individual specimens that are more fit than others of the same variety. You would be waiting for spontaneous mutations.

It is possible to get more rapid adaptation under milder stress, but this tends to be epigenetic, and passed only to the next generation. Actual, genetic change under slight stress requires way more generations that a human lifetime. You can fiddle with intentional crossing of varieties, with selection for your desired trait, but that much faster process still takes in the neighborhood of seven or more years.

All the legends about local adaptation are mostly hooey. As an example, Oriental varieties are said to be more drought tolerant, and need less fertilizer, whereas the truth is that inadequate water and insufficient soil nutrients (together with spacing them way too close together) cause Oriental varieties to grow and taste the way that met the expectations of Ottoman growers and their tobacco consumers. If you give Orientals "American" spacing in the ground, "American" fertilizer and "American" irrigation if needed, those delicate, 3-foot plants with small leaves grow over 7 feet tall, with relatively large leaves--but they don't have those Turkish aromas and leaf characteristics we normally associate with Orientals.

Conclusion: water your plants.

Bob
 

docpierce

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2019
Messages
114
Points
63
Location
coastal
That seems likely.
The shade structures that I am thinking of wouldn't have to be more complicated that 6 or 7 foot wood stakes driven into the ground and that black shade mesh stapled to it to partially block the hottest part of the day.
Btw, Native seed/search carries desert tobacco. https://www.nativeseeds.org/collections/tobacco
 

desert_pioneer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
104
Points
43
Location
Arizona
Please pardon this lengthy excursion into tobacco genetics.

The most effective selection conditions are those that kill a relatively high percentage, but not all, of the plants. But this assumes some degree of diversity in the genetics of a variety. Unfortunately, all stable varieties of tobacco are nearly homozygous (zero heterozygosity). That is to say, there is no handy drought resistance gene hiding in some of them, so there should be little opportunity for finding individual specimens that are more fit than others of the same variety. You would be waiting for spontaneous mutations.

It is possible to get more rapid adaptation under milder stress, but this tends to be epigenetic, and passed only to the next generation. Actual, genetic change under slight stress requires way more generations that a human lifetime. You can fiddle with intentional crossing of varieties, with selection for your desired trait, but that much faster process still takes in the neighborhood of seven or more years.

All the legends about local adaptation are mostly hooey. As an example, Oriental varieties are said to be more drought tolerant, and need less fertilizer, whereas the truth is that inadequate water and insufficient soil nutrients (together with spacing them way too close together) cause Oriental varieties to grow and taste the way that met the expectations of Ottoman growers and their tobacco consumers. If you give Orientals "American" spacing in the ground, "American" fertilizer and "American" irrigation if needed, those delicate, 3-foot plants with small leaves grow over 7 feet tall, with relatively large leaves--but they don't have those Turkish aromas and leaf characteristics we normally associate with Orientals.

Conclusion: water your plants.

Bob

In other words (to the beginning of your response), plant tons of seedlings, and if only a few germinate and even less reach maturity, I'm on my way to creating a desert dwelling nicotiana tobacum plant (after 10-20 generationso_O).

Thank goodness one plant would be enough to plant several hundred.
 

desert_pioneer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
104
Points
43
Location
Arizona
Please pardon this lengthy excursion into tobacco genetics.

The most effective selection conditions are those that kill a relatively high percentage, but not all, of the plants. But this assumes some degree of diversity in the genetics of a variety. Unfortunately, all stable varieties of tobacco are nearly homozygous (zero heterozygosity). That is to say, there is no handy drought resistance gene hiding in some of them, so there should be little opportunity for finding individual specimens that are more fit than others of the same variety. You would be waiting for spontaneous mutations.

It is possible to get more rapid adaptation under milder stress, but this tends to be epigenetic, and passed only to the next generation. Actual, genetic change under slight stress requires way more generations that a human lifetime. You can fiddle with intentional crossing of varieties, with selection for your desired trait, but that much faster process still takes in the neighborhood of seven or more years.

All the legends about local adaptation are mostly hooey. As an example, Oriental varieties are said to be more drought tolerant, and need less fertilizer, whereas the truth is that inadequate water and insufficient soil nutrients (together with spacing them way too close together) cause Oriental varieties to grow and taste the way that met the expectations of Ottoman growers and their tobacco consumers. If you give Orientals "American" spacing in the ground, "American" fertilizer and "American" irrigation if needed, those delicate, 3-foot plants with small leaves grow over 7 feet tall, with relatively large leaves--but they don't have those Turkish aromas and leaf characteristics we normally associate with Orientals.

Conclusion: water your plants.

Bob

Another conclusion: grow my orientals in the desert dust and hold back on the fertilizer (half jokingly)
 

desert_pioneer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
104
Points
43
Location
Arizona
That seems likely.
The shade structures that I am thinking of wouldn't have to be more complicated that 6 or 7 foot wood stakes driven into the ground and that black shade mesh stapled to it to partially block the hottest part of the day.
Btw, Native seed/search carries desert tobacco. https://www.nativeseeds.org/collections/tobacco

That sounds simpler than what I had envisioned. Also, I do plan on someday in the distant future fitting a grow tent with shade cloth.

Desert tobacco, presumably being a rustica, is not exactly what I am looking for (although I have snagged some "wild sacred tobacco" seeds). The reason I don't grow them is because they're rusticas and I've read that they smell like a wet dog as a live plant and when curing too :poop:
 

desert_pioneer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
104
Points
43
Location
Arizona
In other words (to the beginning of your response), plant tons of seedlings, and if only a few germinate and even less reach maturity, I'm on my way to creating a desert dwelling nicotiana tobacum plant (after 10-20 generationso_O).

Thank goodness one plant would be enough to plant several hundred.

Well I didn't read all the way but if I did what I said previously, then maybe I'd have a blind shot at getting a tobacum plant that can live in the desert.

The more likely result is that ill figure how to keep them alive in a desert (or give up and retreat to the insides of my house)
 

desert_pioneer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
104
Points
43
Location
Arizona
Considering that Arizona has a ridiculous amount and strength of sunshine, I couldnt go wrong with using a stronger shade cloth, right?

The one I'm eyeing due to availability and price says it can block "up to" 87% of UV rays.

I'm assuming that UV rays are what can make or break the quality of shade leaf (maybe it's obvious but I was not a plant/sun/science person till 2 months ago)

I checked the UV index for Hartford, Connecticut, and where I live and my location clearly scores higher.
 

deluxestogie

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
25,604
Points
113
Location
near Blacksburg, VA
87% sounds too high to me, but I have no idea what "of UV rays" means in terms of tobacco shade cloth. Standard shade cloth is just a grid that blocks all wavelengths, but at 40%. And that's for shade-grown tobacco, which has to be suspended by vertical wires to support the tall, floppy, shade-grown stalks.

Bob
 

desert_pioneer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
104
Points
43
Location
Arizona
87% sounds too high to me, but I have no idea what "of UV rays" means in terms of tobacco shade cloth. Standard shade cloth is just a grid that blocks all wavelengths, but at 40%. And that's for shade-grown tobacco, which has to be suspended by vertical wires to support the tall, floppy, shade-grown stalks.

Bob

Well, too late for me to go back :')
 

desert_pioneer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
104
Points
43
Location
Arizona
Is it better to harden off plants as soon as possible? (I'm hardening off some dime-size gold dollars as soon as I transplanted them into pots starting with shade)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top