WLT's Perique

[larryccf]

I noticed WLT has Perique in the store - curious if anyone here has tried it.

I had tried some from 3 different vendors, all different brands, and two were either bland or yuck. Surprisingly the yuck one was Gawith Hoggarth's - it has an aroma of flowers, and i mean perfume flowers like your aunt might have used. Just threw it out. The other brand, Mclleland's was just bland, no kind of nose note or spicy / peppery taste and the 3rd, house brand from a vendor that sells it by the ounce is frigging heaven - a real strong pungent vinegary nose note when you open the bag, and it's still there when you smoke it plus spices & pepper come thru pretty strong as well. That pungent nose note puts you off the first time you inhale it, then it starts to intrigue you - once that happens, it has you.

Does WLT's have that pungent vingeary note and peppery bite?

 

[FmGrowit]

To my nose, the Perique I sell smells more of dried apricots. The vinegar smell you're getting from the Perique you like is most likely from a preservative used on the tobacco to keep it from getting moldy. We don't use any preservatives.

 

[GreenDragon]

Everything at WLT is of the highest quality. I’ve made several orders of both cigar and pipe tobacco varieties and have always been blown away at how great everything is from the quality of the leaf to the condition it’s in when it arrives. He really is a level above other online vendors.

 

[larryccf]

when i first learned about Perique, someone on another forum had posted a link to a NY TImes story about it, and the Louisiana indian tradition of fermenting the tobacco inside tree stumps in the swamp but the writer referenced the pungent vinegary aroma - so i've always assumed it was a result of the fermentation process. The writer wasn't sampling perique in tree stumps, but pictured in, iirc, special barrels with presses at the top to compact the tobacco into the "juices" in the barrel.

Your explaination would or could explain the varying periques i've rcvd

tks for the answer

 

[deluxestogie]

A review and discussion are here: https://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/new-wlt-latakia-and-perique-product-review-moved-to-wlt.8273/

Bob

 

[larryccf]

i found the article and posted a link in a new thread in that forum - it really is an interesting read

 

[larryccf]

FmGrowit - your response about "preservative" got me curious (and a little concerned) so i took my bag of Perique by a local tobacconist, pretty sharp guy, he took one whiff and confirmed what i thought it was - that aroma in my Perique is from the fermentation process

 

[FmGrowit]

I suppose smell is a matter of taste. I've opened a full barrel of aged Perique and it didn't smell in the least bit "vinegary" to me.

Calcium propionate which is a commonly used preservative in traditional pipe tobacco, has a very distinctive smell of vinegar, but is easily masked by additional flavorings like vanilla, chocolate, cherry etc.

 

[deluxestogie]

The fermentation of Perique results in a more alkaline leaf. It is this alkalinity that allows Pichia anomala to suppress all the other microbes, and produce that distinctive prune/grapey aroma. The aroma can be pretty intense, and sometimes mildly "barnyard" (i.e. manure), but it's never vinegary. It's more like the potent botrytis grapes used for making certain specialty wines.

Bob

 

[larryccf]

this tobacconist was no youngster - in fact, he's been at the same location since i was a kid - used to take music lessons at the studio next to his current location - he's been there that long, so he's been in the business for a bit. I don't doubt what you're saying FmGrowit, but same as the pungent aroma mentioned / described in the articles i read in the link deluxestogie put up, up above, it's a pungent aroma with the strong suggestion of vinegar, like something overly fermented.

On the flip side, as i stated, two other purchases did not have that pungent aroma - the G&H, which in the world of processed tobacco is not a bottom rung tobacco company, had a flowery / perfume aroma while the other, Mclleland's, was just bland.

I'm curious to see what Mark Ryan sez, i'll try to throw him a call in the AM

 

[larryccf]

FmGrowit - it occurred to me, i don't mind putting some in the mail to you..... I'd also like to sample some of that Calcium propionate - can you point me at a source?

I'm just trying to reconcile all those articles describing a pungent aroma (and if i'm recalling correctly, one referring to a vinegar note). At least one of the articles also referred to the pressure while in the barrels applied done to act as a preservative.

Let me know if you want the sample but i've only got an ounce or so, so it won't be a big sample, but enough to sample the aroma

 

[Charly]

Just to add my two cents :
Some of the perique I made (with home grown tobacco) have a smell of vinegar, some are more fruity, and one simply was awfully bad smelling (I never dared to smoke this one...).

I did not try WLT's perique, nor any other commercial one all alone.
My only experiences with perique (other than mine) is from commercial blends, in which I sometime associate perique with a vinegar smell.
- McClellands have always a vinegar smell, even when there is no perique in it so it's hard to get any conclusion there
- Three Nuns have a distinct vinegar smell
- other VaPer (GLPease, Gawith & Hoggarth, etc) have some vinegar/barnyard type of smell (whereas other blends from the same brands without perique do not have this vinegar smell)
BUT all these suppositions are hard to confirm, since a lot of these commercial blends use some conservative (like vinegar)...

 

[larryccf]

Charly: "....since a lot of these commercial blends use some conservative (like vinegar)... "

Trying to learn something here, are you saying some tobacco blends use vinegar as a preservative? I assumed the vinegar resulting from the fermentation process was acting as a preservative but never thought of using it as one

 

[deluxestogie]

I believe that McClellan in particular used acetic acid as a preservative. Every McClellan blend whacked my nose with vinegar, on first opening the can. That did dissipate after opening. I have absolutely no direct evidence that they added acetic acid.

I've made many dozens of batches of pressed or fermented (or both) tobacco blends over the years. I just don't get a vinegar smell, no matter the process.

Bob

 

[larryccf]

from one of those articles, McClelland was one of the makers that Mark Ryan was supplying but that was some time ago. Called into D&R (not Trisha's), Mark Ryan was not in, but spoke to someone that I was told knew all their tobaccos - response i got was all three of their blending periques (all come from around their processing plant in Louisiana (Grand Pointe was on, and for the life of me i don't recall the other two locations), but said all three were very pungent with a vinegar note. The vinegar note varied, and was a factor of how long the tobacco had been allowed to ferment, with the longest being 5 years.

For the hey of it, i ordered a 50 gram tin of their "Decade", which is supposed to be the most pungent and kept in the barrel for the 5 yr period. I'm just curious to see what it's like. This pungent thing is oddly addictive

almost forgot, if the vinegar note dissipating with time is a characteristic of acetic acid then what i've got here must not have acetic acid - I've had it 3-4 years, and maybe longer and have re-hydrated a good half dozen times. Twice since pulling it out for blending with the Basma - it was dry as toast and that pungent odor with the vinegary note came back full force. If the pungent odor were any worse i'd say it was like "aged locker socks", but not nasty - i'll go with Charly's barnyard earthy

 

[deluxestogie]

You are going to make me crazy. Olfaction is subjective. Aged locker socks give off ammonia, from the breakdown of proteins in sweat and dead skin.

I offer no response to the olfactory opinions of distributors and retailers.

Bob

 

[larryccf]

"You are going to make me crazy. "???????

what has my curiosity raised is why so much effort to disprove my Perique has a pungent aroma with a vinegary note -1) a long established tobacconist here in richmond confirmed to me it's from the fermentation process, 2nd) Mark Ryan's staff confirmed all 3 of D&R's blending Perique has a vinegary note, and 3rd) Charly, another member here has confirmed it in some of his blends. And all those articles, describe as noteworthy that Perique has a pungent aroma. Maybe you should contact D&R and tell Mark Ryan Perique should not have a vinegary note. Or consider the possiblity that your knowledge of Perique isn't complete.

Jeez, all i was curious about was if WLT's Perique was similiar - an awful lot of effort went into telling me mine couldn't have a vinegary note.

 

[FmGrowit]

Larry, I'll send you a sample of my Perique tomorrow. You be the judge, and please do tell us what you think.

 

[Charly]

Stay calm gentlemen, there is nothing to be nervous about here.
Maybe this is all about our respective senses of what smells vinegary or not ?

I'll have to dig in my notes to see what I wrote about the various perique tests I made. What I clearly remember is that the vinegar smell is often there in the beginning of the perique process, and later it becomes more "winey", but some keep a vinegar smell longer...
Maybe my "vinegary" perique are not completly periqued ? Maybe it has something to do with my process, or with the tobacco strain used ?

 

[larryccf]

FmGrowit - i appreciate the offer of a sample, but don't need it. If it doesn't have the pungent aroma, and the peppery bite to the smoke, then it doesn't have what i want. As I indicated earlier, i tossed the G&H perique and the McClelland's.

Not sure if you asked above somewhere in or in that PM - but you asked what my concern is re Calcium propionate , stating that it's a commonly used preservative in bakery goods. I introduced a product based on silicone, pure silicone some years ago - i had brought in a retired lab chief from Dow Chemical who were the original patent holders on it. The stuff is safe as the gypsum in sheetrock, totally non-toxic when used normally - you can actually drink it, it will pass thru your system as the molecules are larger than the openings in your intestines, Brylcream used it in their "little dab will do you" hair cream back in the 60s, it's one of the few chemicals not regulated by the states of NJ, Maine and California (the most restrictive states regarding chemical regulations. The US Postal system will accept it for air mail, with no restrictions. You can spill it on the ground, and the bacteria population will be un-affected.

But it becomes highly carcinogenic when combusted - it gives off formaldehyde. I doubt the FDA tested calcium propionate in it's combusted state, same as the other 70 or so chems in factory cigarettes (that little factoid was stated by the 3 retired FDA scientists that appeared on "60 Minutes" whistleblowing on what the FDA had approved, that even though all the chemicals were safe for human consumption, they had not been studied in their combusted state, nor studied in combination with each other.

FWIW