Some of new zealands tobacco laws

[Orson Carte]

Interesting. I've ordered/bought 5 pounds yesterday. Works out at under NZ$50 per pound. If I get 300 grams shredded out of the (1 pound) 450g, that will last me 6 weeks vs $92/week for a 50g at shops at moment. Hoping it goes well... Depending how it goes I might make another purchase before October when the auto-GST (15% tax) kicks in on (all?) purchases, trademe ebay paypal etc..

It would appear that we pretty much agree.
Your figure of 'under' NZ$50 per pound (for a 5 pound shipment) is correct. And it reinforces my point (which really should be pretty obvious to all) that the bigger the shipment the cheaper the cost per pound.
Now, I don't want to be a knocker but if you've only just made your order you won't know at this stage whether or not you'll be hit with the $45 Treatment Fee. If you are (and I expect to be hit most every time) this adds $9 to the cost of each pound. When I buy 8 pounds the added cost is around $5.60 per pound. (And if you buy only one, it's $45 per pound).
The difficulty in discussing this is that there are quite a number of variables. One of them is the actual amount of (de-stemmed) leaf recovered from each pound.
Depending upon the variety purchased you can lose anywhere between 25 - 35% of the weight as stem. (The recovery is high with large flue-cured leaves and comparitively low with the likes of Maryland).
Having said that, and talking in metrics, when I purchase 8lbs (and get hit with the Treatment Fee) it costs me around NZ$360. And, I end up with approximately 2.83kg of leaf, which equates to 0.127 cents per gram.
This means that 50 grams (just under 2oz) costs me $6.35, compared to $92 at the shop.. Is it any wonder we go to the effort!

Your last point indicates to me that there is perhaps still some confusion as to what will happen with the new regulations in October. Unless I am still reading things wrongly it would appear that provided the total cost of a shipment, freight included, (in NZ$) does not exceed $400 the total cost will be exactly the same as it is now. That is, there will be no import duty or GST.
My only concern is that the Government will at some time soon (as they have been threatening to with their 'Smoke Free' hang-up) completely ban whole-leaf imports.

 

[Wayn3]

Yes of course.
I googled & the auto-GST is October next year. I thought this year. If someone buys something for $50 or $300, its +15% which should be added automatically at Amazon or paypal etc etc. So $57.50 or $345 at checkout when paying for item.

I'm not too concerned if they ban unprocessed whole leaf imports. If they (the Govt) are serious about a Smokefree NZ by 2025, which I think even they admit is impossible, what I'm concerned about is if they say one is banned from growing ones own tobacco etc etc.

I just need enough imported whole leaf to last me until Easter next year. Hopefully easy enough. This order arriving soon could last me 25-30 weeks. This is my first year growing & hope to be smoking for free by about February.

Decided I'll grow 2-3 varieties that need minimum processing (for next year) & stockpile/age other varieties.

There is someone in Auckland offering whole leaf Virginia Gold by the pound for NZ$150 delivered, and quantities up to 1000 pounds.

 

[Kiwi2018]

Received my 1st sampler pack no problem. The 2nd and third shipment we're intercepted by MPI and required heat treatment @ $45 + 20 courier.

 

[Orson Carte]

Received my 1st sampler pack no problem. The 2nd and third shipment we're intercepted by MPI and required heat treatment @ $45 + 20 courier.

I'm pleased to see that I'm not the only one being held to ransom at the border. Unfortunately they now seem to test every package of whole-leaf, except perhaps the very smallest parcels.
Really you shouldn't have been charged an extra courier fee after they tested it and sent it on to you. That is only supposed to happen if there is something as well as tobacco in the package. In that case they will separate the parcel and send on the item/s not being tested separately. At that point, as far as the courier is concerned, the delivery is complete. Then they charge the extra amount for another courier to deliver the treated tobacco.
The moral of the story is; if you wish to avoid the extra charge don't order anything other than tobacco.

 

[Orson Carte]

Yes of course.
I googled & the auto-GST is October next year. I thought this year. If someone buys something for $50 or $300, its +15% which should be added automatically at Amazon or paypal etc etc. So $57.50 or $345 at checkout when paying for item.

I'm not too concerned if they ban unprocessed whole leaf imports. If they (the Govt) are serious about a Smokefree NZ by 2025, which I think even they admit is impossible, what I'm concerned about is if they say one is banned from growing ones own tobacco etc etc.

I just need enough imported whole leaf to last me until Easter next year. Hopefully easy enough. This order arriving soon could last me 25-30 weeks. This is my first year growing & hope to be smoking for free by about February.

Decided I'll grow 2-3 varieties that need minimum processing (for next year) & stockpile/age other varieties.

There is someone in Auckland offering whole leaf Virginia Gold by the pound for NZ$150 delivered, and quantities up to 1000 pounds.

At the moment it all seems pretty confusing.
I don't claim any expertise, apart from what I've gleaned on the 'net but I keep seeing it stated that the 'new' tax regime comes into being in October this year. At that time GST (sales tax) will be charged on all imported items valued at NZ$400 or more. However, as far as unprocessed whole-leaf tobacco is concerned, and probably with every other item, this is the exact same regulation that is in place right now. So, what's new?
The idea of the scheme is to try and stop local traders being disadvantaged. Presently they have to add 15% to every good or service (and hand it over to the Government) whereas customers buying from overseas suppliers completely avoid this (on purchases under $400).
The great flaw in the scheme lies with the logistics of actually collecting the tax due.
Any imported item valued at more than $400 will be held (presumably by Customs) until the Sales Tax is paid. This will have to involve paperwork from them, etc. It's no wonder they are saying that they won't bother trying to collect on anything under $400.
So, it's pretty obvious what will happen - people shopping online, overseas will do their damnedest to keep each individual purchase under the $400 threshold.
The Government is well aware of this, of course. So, there is part B to the plan (and I think this is the bit for October 2019).
At that time they hope to charge GST on ALL purchases, regardless of their value. But they're in a quandary over just how they actually collect it. They are talking about making the overseas retailer charge the 15% GST on every sale and then return it to the NZ Government.....
I think they're dreaming. Can you imagine all those Ali Express sellers acting as tax collectors and paying it on to NZ? I wonder if Don, of WLT would be interested?

 

[Wayn3]

I have my last two consignments (16 lbs) being held and tested at this very moment.)

Did you get your 16 lbs..?

My 5 lbs is held at Customs Auckland. Just sent them a email.

Heres some info from Customs NZ website about tobacco.
https://www.customs.govt.nz/persona...-free-shopping/tobacco-sent-by-mail-or-cargo/

 

[Orson Carte]

Did you get your 16 lbs..?

My 5 lbs is held at Customs Auckland. Just sent them a email.

Heres some info from Customs NZ website about tobacco.
https://www.customs.govt.nz/persona...-free-shopping/tobacco-sent-by-mail-or-cargo/

You're can just ring them (09 909 8638) but I don't think it hurries them up. The norm is that you will receive a letter (from MPI) around three weeks after the package has cleared Auckland airport. Then you pay the $45 Test Fee.
After the parcel has been treated they will send it on to you.
In my experience the whole process takes about six weeks from the time of ordering to the time it reaches your doorstep.

ps. I think that the information contained in that link you have posted pertains only to processed tobacco, not whole-leaf. I really don't know the legalities of just how much imported whole-leaf you can hold at any one time (it's 15kg for leaf you've grown yourself) but I do know you'll get hit with duty and GST if you exceed around 8 lbs on any one order.

 

[JennyLeez]

Thank you to the kiwis who have posted above. Heaps of answers for me there.

It eludes me as to the fact that the government allows me to purchase tobacco from overseas and yet in New Zealand I can not :
-Sell my own plants, leaves or home grown shredded tobacco.
-Buy plants, leaves or home grown shredded tobacco.
-I cant even GIVE away plants, leaves or shredded tobacco without breaking the law.

The only thing I can do is sell or give away seeds.

and yet I can purchase from overseas............. am I missing something here....lol

Ok so what am I going to buy please? Could someone advise which would be the closest to the burley leaf.

Thanks in advance
https://wholeleaftobacco.com/

Cheers
Jenny

 

[OldDinosaurWesH]

Ah yes...In the immortal words of Dr. Bones McCoy (a fictional character) "The bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the universe." A profound statement considering that some Hollywood scriptwriter came up with it.

Wes H.

 

[Wayn3]

I'm not sure what closest to burley. Theres Kentuckey Fire Cured & Dark Air Cured which I have not tried.
I got the Virginia Double Bright Leaf which is stronger than Port Royal & I prefer this.
Also got Maryland & Piloto Viso. Both are good & Maryland mild, worthwhile & very slight cigar flavour.
I got 5 pounds; 3 double bright & 1 each of other 2.

My next order will be 8 pounds mostly double bright leaf (5 pounds), unless virginia red tips becomes available again, maybe 1 lemon, 1 Kentuckey Fire Cured & 1 Dark Air Cured.

Occasionally people sell seedlings on trademe.

Heres a interesting article about a guy in Nelson.

The 4790 kilograms of tobacco leaf was seized after a search of Jury's Motueka Valley property by Customs officers and the armed offenders squad in May 2010.

Jury was convicted of manufacturing tobacco in 2012, but the conviction was quashed by the High Court on the basis the Crown had not proved beyond reasonable doubt that his homegrown tobacco was intended for an illegal purpose.

In New Zealand it is not illegal to grow, dry, store, or sell cured but uncut tobacco leaf, but manufacturing, except for home-grown tobacco for personal use, requires a licence and the full knowledge of Customs.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/99...o-have-nearly-five-tonnes-of-tobacco-returned

I do not quite understand that last paragraph... sounds like one is allowed to sell uncut/unprocessed whole leaf, but anything processed/shredded is illegal.

 

[Wayn3]

...and another article. He had the tobacco confiscated, returned & confiscated again in High Court...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11907175

 

[Wayn3]

Theres someone, a NZ website claiming to offer huge quantities of tobacco. Up to 1000 pounds. I doubt its possible here in NZ. Maybe small quantities. But they state for alternative uses only. As pest control etc.
https://www.virginiagold.co.nz/

 

[Alpine]

The situation in Italy is similar: I am allowed to grow tons of tobacco if I want, but I’m not allowed to process it in any way so to render it usable (this is rather absurd). More, I’m allowed to buy unprocessed tobacco in whatever quantity, but again not allowed to shred it or “process it”

Pier

 

[deluxestogie]

I do not quite understand that last paragraph

That initial seizure was in 2010. Interesting use of government resources, though.

Bob

 

[JennyLeez]

The situation in Italy is similar: I am allowed to grow tons of tobacco if I want, but I’m not allowed to process it in any way so to render it usable (this is rather absurd). More, I’m allowed to buy unprocessed tobacco in whatever quantity, but again not allowed to shred it or “process it”

and the latter even more absurd. Gee you are worse off than us. Crazy man made laws huh Alpine.

Thanks for that info Wayn3. I am no where near that quantity mores the pity

4.8 tonnes of home-grown tobacco leaf was seized, then given back and has now been seized again, more than seven years after authorities raided his farm.

He obviously is not smoking fast enough...lol
Typical of our legal system though. Tie you up in hoops for years.

Cheers

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I don't know. I disagree with all you guys. This guy is clearly not growing for personal use, and however libertarian you may or may not be, the fact that he's abusing laws which are partly intended to permit humble folks like us who are growing for personal use to enjoy our hobbies and provide for ourselves, puts us at risk of losing that freedom.

In Canada we have the same thing. There are folks in Ontario and Quebec who walk that grey line where they break the law but it can't be proven. I'll be right pissed if they cause laws to be created or changed, ending with me having to stop growing and ordering WLT.

 

[JennyLeez]

I hear what you are saying China but as far as I am concern Bob knocked it on the head when he said"

Interesting use of government resources, though.

As it is world wide NZ has a massive drug problem. Especially with marijuana. As with our tobacco plants this also grows prolific and especially on the East Coast of the North Island. Funding and resources would be better spent dealing with this plus help and rehab facilities of which there is a huge lack of.

Smoking is legal and has to be a personal choice. The govt is trying to stop us smoking down here by toughening up the laws re growing and placing huge taxes on us.
There was even talk of making NZ smoke free by the year 2025 but that was never going to happen.
Needless to say by hounding smokers it has just encouraged us to look for alternative solutions and yes breaking laws.

Out of curiosity how much are tailor mades in Canadian. Currently a 25 packet of the cheapest is $35.00 ( Can $30.00c ).
Tobacco 30gm is around $56.00 ( can $48.00c. )
How does that compare with your prices please?

Cheers
Jenny

 

[fimbrew]

Are you asking about cannabis or tobacco?

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I think a pack of 25 smokes is around $16. A 28g package of pipe tobacco is $21. We probably (I'm guessing) have the cheapest tobacco in Canada because we are the least taxed province, and because health care is a provincial matter.

So you're paying significantly more.

Note, although we as a rule, tend to avoid talking about left-handed tobacco in this forum, It surprises me that it is seen as a problem in NZ. It'll be fully legal here in three weeks.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Are you asking about cannabis or tobacco?

Tobacco