Please school me on growing shade leaf - cigar wrapper

[O.S.O.K.]

I gather that having the netting over the top does the trick on the leaf but the stalks don't develope well and can't support the plant... so you need some kind of support?

How is this usually done?

And what about the netting - what is used typically for that?

TIA

 

[Jitterbugdude]

I've never had any of my shade leaf stalks fall over. I'm not sure where the professionals get their shade cloth but I use 40% shade cloth. Google "shade cloth" and there are all kinds of places that sell it. It is expensive so if you are going to grow professionally (i.e., large amounts) you'd probably want to look into what the real growers use. I only grow 1 row that is about 7 feet wide by about 30 feet long.

 

[johnlee1933]

Shade and stringing

I have grown CT Shade for the last two years. I have a friend who grows it commercially. He uses about 40 acres of netting. It is 15" wide and the rolls are God awful long. I believe it is 40%. The way they set it up is one layer over the top and double layers around the edges. The object is several fold. Shade, reducing wind, restricting bugs, increasing humidity, etc.. In my case I have partial shade from trees and don't really need it. Commercially, a system of posts and #10 steel wire is used to support the net and the plants. A steel wire is over every row. As the pants grow each plant is strung up to the wire and as it grows the string is wrapped around it like a spiral staircase. The first year I did not do that and my plants did fall over (so did my Havana). This year I rigged a frame out of EMT (electrical conduit) and strung the plants. (There are pics on HTGT in the cigar section) They did fine till I got a hail storm. ( You might say all Hail broke loose.)

 

[O.S.O.K.]

Thanks guys - that's what I was wondering - 40% shade cloth... OK. And a structure to hold the cloth and support the plants too... OK I'll check out the pics.

 

[Chrism]

Prepare to spend some bucks on that stuff... I was going get some for when I start on building a greenhouse. It's expensive.

 

[BigBonner]

You all have me wondering about shade tobacco . I have some CT Broadleaf that was cut about three weeks ago . The stobs in the field have grown new stalks mightly and some are about knee high + with decent size leaves .

What I wonder is that these have grown at a cool time of the year . The sun and temperature isn't a hot as it was three weeks ago . Wouldn't this be considered shade ?

I plan on cutting the good CT Broadleaf tobacco and see what happens .

 

[O.S.O.K.]

I'm probably better off starting with something that I will have immediate success with - the more I learn the more I understand that shade leaf is for advanced or at least intermediate growers - experience, not size. When I do make the attempt, it will be somenthing like 1/4 acre as you have to build the support structure and get the correct shade cloth, etc.

 

[HaGGarD]

Hey guys was wondering if you could get into more details about advanced ct shade growing techniques? It seems like a homemade screen could support the ct as well. A couple hooks some string and posts. Or is there more to it?

 

[Jitterbugdude]

That's about it, anything that will give shade to your plants. It should be at least 8 feet tall and light enough yet strong enough to withstand winds and heavy rains

 

[johnlee1933]

JBD has it about right. I used scrap EMT (electrical conduit). 4 vertical posts (8 X 10 plot, 8 feet high), 4 horizontals (perimeter) and cross wires to bind it together and carry the support strings. I got some used shade cloth from a commercial friend who was scrapping it as unusable for his big machines. It is 15' wide. Plenty wide for my application. I just unrolled the big ball of scrap and cut out good sections to meet my needs (dumpster for the rest). My stalks did need string supports. The netting withstood wind and rain just fine but the hail storm went right thru it.

If you want more info, PM me with a phone number and a time and I'll drop the dime.

John

 

[Tom_in_TN]

I wanted to try something similar to the 'shade cloth' idea but would be using it mostly for bug control, hornworms in particular. Since I'm determined to grow without using pesticides I would like to get some protection from the large sphinx moths (aka, hummingbird moths) and keep those critters out.

My idea is to use a lightweight, spun cloth that lets most of the light through the fiber. So, technically it would be shade grown but not in the true sense of the word. The cloth I have purchased is 12' x 500' and provides about 15% shade.

I want 2 double rows, staggered planting that are 3' wide and a 3' spacing between the rows. That would be 9' plus an extra 1.5' on the outside rows for leaf growth and equal 12' total width. The length would be 50' plus an 8' height or a total of 66' in order to cover the ends plus allow for a bit of sag and tucking in the bottom edges. Side coverage would use the 12' width and there would be a bit of overlap on top.

There could be 2 ways to attempt this: 1) start with cover in place before transplant. 2) go with no early protection and hope I can stay ahead of any severe hornworm problems by diligently patrolling the plants. If that does not work, go with BigBonners idea, modified a bit, and to cut stalks prior to regular harvest and then cover the plants. I figure on leaving the bottom sucker and hope for decent regrowth and perhaps a slightly delayed harvest.

OK, anyone want to point out the potential problems? Like how to fasten such a light weight cloth? What sort of support could be done, on a shoestring budget? Thanks for any help.

 

[FmGrowit]

Tenting isn't all that scientific. For the size roll you have, I'd plan on running it width-wise as apposed to length-wise. Bury a 10' - 12' - 4" x 4" (or little trees if you have them) every 20' and connect them with either cable or nylon rope (rope will be easier to tighten) 7' -8' above ground level. Cut your shade cloth 30' long and run it across the rope to form the sides and the top in one piece.

You might need guylines on the posts to keep them taught and you might have to space the end posts at 10' to support the rope. Basically you're going to build a grid with rope and cover it with the shade cloth. This picture appear to show weighted sides to help keep the sides from blowing in the wind. It doesn't have to be pretty, it just has to be built well. I wouldn't bother doing anything to seem the pieces together and it might even be more advantageous to leave the pieces separate so the wind can blow through instead of making a giant sail.

 

[johnlee1933]

Commercially they use #10 steel wire at about 15' post spacing along the rows. The end posts are heavily guyed with the corners guyed both ways. I used electrical EMT for my verticals and the horizontals. I also used it to carry the wires I used to support the CT Shade plants. (That was an 8 x 10 plot.)

John

 

[Tom_in_TN]

OK, good advice. Running it width-wise will be easier to handle. Plus doing it prior to the transplant will be far wiser to do. OK, so I see how it is better to weight the fabric on the ground and that helps keep it a little taunt and I will not worry with seaming the fabric pieces together.. Yeah, rope is much easier to handle and that's what I will use. I've got some screw anchors for the guylines and will round up some posts (trees). Thanks for helping out - I can visualize this much better with the photo you included.

Gonna keep them hornworms out of my baccy patch.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Gonna keep them hornworms out of my baccy patch.

No you are not...

 

[deluxestogie]

Your plans are industrious. For your number of plants (I'm guessing about 80.), it may be a lot less work to just inspect your plants every couple of days, and pick off the eggs and tiny hornworms. When you get them early, it's unlikely to become a significant problem. As JBD points out, even with the canopy, you'll have to inspect them anyway.

Sections of 15% shade cloth can be used as a floating row cover for the first few weeks (no supports; just held down with a few rocks), and will minimize early bug and bird problems. One reason I have decided not to shade-grow even the small number of CT Shade plants that are among my varieties for this season is the headache guy lines present for mowing. You can also sew very effective bud bags (~24"w x 30"h) out of the spun 15% shade cloth.

I had many of my plants blow down (twice in fact, last summer) in sudden 50 mph wind storms, in late June, if I recall. I shudder to think what that kind of wind would do to a thin tent the size of a mainsail. The CT shade cloth (40%, I think) is a heavy, woven cloth, which accounts to some extent for the heavy wire John reports, plus the need to support gangly CT Shade plants. But it's also sturdier fabric, and much more porous to wind than a finely spun fabric.

If you do build the structure, and it does well, you may give me the courage to try some shade-grown in 2013.

Bob

 

[Tom_in_TN]

No you are not...

Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[Tom_in_TN]

I hear what you are saying about the amount of work and the highly probability of disaster when the big winds blow. Last year we got hit on June 22nd at 8:24pm with 70-80 mph straight-line winds. That would take most well-built tents a good distance down the pike. I see your point about the floating row cover, which would be simple enough to do and provide early protection. By the time the cloth needed to be removed there should be a good population of parasitic wasps in the garden to help destroy any hornworms that escape my attention.

Oh, with regard to the grass growing up around the anchors for the guy lines, I did not cut my grass last year anyway. But, let me ponder on my plans a bit more. Anyone else who wants to jump in on this topic ought to do so while the water is warm.

On the topic of keeping the plants from being blown down, there is a method I use to support my tomato vines that is fairly simple to keep up with. I run a series of baling twine (nylon) from support posts every 10' on both sides of the main stem. It does not need to be real tight because as the plant grows there wwill be a good number of them supporting the stalk. They tend to allow the stalk a little 'wiggle room' but will help prevent serious blow downs.

I read your excellent 2011 Grow Log and will follow your method of making the bud bags. Did the plants with bud bags suffer worse in the high winds?

 

[deluxestogie]

Did the plants with bud bags suffer worse in the high winds?

None of the plants were bagged until the bud heads developed, by which time the stalks were much sturdier. No blow downs from the bud bags.

Bob

 

[Tom_in_TN]

Great info, very helpful...has anyone ever told you that you are a goldmine of information?