Stalk harvesting or leaf

[deluxestogie]

Daniel,
Your citation of Cuban cigar leaf designations is depressingly accurate. It is interesting to consider the possibilities. I question its applicability to home growing.

I would guess that most of the Cuban growers are not quite so arcane with their harvesting, and that much of the fine granularity of the grading occurs after the leaf is cured, based on size, texture and cured color. Traditional Turkish nomenclature divides the plant positions into as many named leaf grades. Somehow, the Turkish growers decided that each grouping consisted of three leaves, despite the easy observation that tobacco plant symmetry is in staggered pairs. In practice, both in Cuba and Asia Minor, the leaf is primed by its appearance, rather than by date, and is divided into many fewer grades for commercial designation.

It comes as no surprise that leaf characteristics vary in a continuum, from bottom to top. Even with only 4 position grades, I have found the variation from one plant of the same variety to the next plant renders categorical expectations less than predictive.

Bob

 

[Daniel]

Yeah and I'll bet rain ain't a problem. ;<))

John

LOL!!! I think we get all of about 8 days of rain every year. they will all fall right when I want to harvest. It would be bad if it does because this field would really make horrible mud when wet. IT was also 70 degrees here two days ago. since then it ahs been snowing. it is supposed to be 70 again tomorrow and I have a concrete job planned. Guess we can kiss the warm weather goodbye now.

Bob, I have seen a lot on the grading of tobacco and decided it is just overkill. I am not going to touch that. To me it is all going in the same shredder and being graded smoke. I thought the prime harvesting schudule would be helpful for folks to realize that they may go out and jsut take one or two leaves at a time and leave the rest to ripen. just lke harvesting fruit.

 

[SmokeStack]

Why are certain tobaccos stalk-cured whereas others are primed? For example, why are Burleys stalk-cured while Virginias (flue cured) are primed. What would happen to a Virginian tobacco (in terms of strength, taste, etc...) if it were stalk-cured instead of primed? And vice-versa, what would happen to Burley tobacco if it were primed instead of stalk-cured?

Also, does stalk curing require more time to color cure than priming or less time?

 

[FmGrowit]

Why are certain tobaccos stalk-cured whereas others are primed? For example, why are Burleys stalk-cured while Virginias (flue cured) are primed.

Commercial Burley is stalk cured to facilitate production. Burley is grown to its heaviest weight possible before harvesting. More weight translates directly into higher profit.

Commercial Flue Cured it machine harvested one leaf at a time, 4 -6 leaves per plant 3 times during the growing season. In other words...4 -6 leaves are removed from the plant as the leaves ripen. The leaves are then put into racks (very similar to priming) and put into an oven-like container. Then the leaves are "Flue Cured".

What would happen to a Virginian tobacco (in terms of strength, taste, etc...) if it were stalk-cured instead of primed? And vice-versa, what would happen to Burley tobacco if it were primed instead of stalk-cured?

Virginia, or to be more exact, Flue Cure varieties can be stalk cured like a Burley, but it will not produce the same product as if it were Flue Cured. BigBonner did this last year and the stalk cured Virginia had a flavor somewhat close to that of a Flue Cured leaf, but it looked like a Burley.

In general, a ripe-ripe leaf (one that has reached its fullest growth potential) will be the strongest in nicotine, but it will also have the strongest flavor...sometimes this isn't the best thing to do...especially for a home grower.

In my opinion, primed Burley makes for a far superior product than that of a stalk cured leaf.

On the other had, Cigar leaf is almost always harvested (primed) much earlier to provide for a milder smoking experience.

Also, does stalk curing require more time to color cure than priming or less time?

Stalk curing does take more time for the leaf to color cure. There is a lot of energy stored in the stalk and the leaf continues to draw from that resource in an attempt to live.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Why are certain tobaccos stalk-cured whereas others are primed?

Here's my opinion (so you know it's right.. ).... Short answer... Burley is stalk cured because that is the easiest way to cure tobacco. You just cut the stalk, let it wilt , then hang in a barn till cured. The other major tobacco type in this country, the Virginia, or "Brightleaf" is primed because it is subject to extreme heat in what amounts to a gigantic oven. It would be cost prohibitive to flue cure tobacco stalks.It is much easier to pick the leaves, hang and cook. Additionally, Burley has low to no sugar content so flue curing would not be of any benefit. Flue curing not only makes the leaf a nice pretty yellow color but it also fixes the sugar content in the leaf. It, unfortunately also increases the TSNA's

I have stalk cured and primed Burley. I've also stalk cured and primed Virginia's and Turkish tobacco's and have not noticed any difference. There are others on this forum that say you can taste the difference. I say, try it yourself this year. Stalk cure and Prime the same type of tobacco and make your own decision.

Stalk Curing and Priming takes the same amount of time to color cure. With stalk curing you cut the entire stalk 3-6 weeks after topping and let cure. The curing will take roughly 6 weeks. With priming you pick the lower leafs about 3-5 weeks after topping, come back about a week later and grab the middles , then a week later and get the tops.

By far, the biggest difference to me is not between stalk cured or primed, but the leaf position. The lower leaves are much, much smoother than the tops.

Randy B

 

[BigBonner]

Last year I cured flue three ways . One with heat , one with whole stalk , the other by piling the leaves .

The regular flue cred I think is best , While whole stalk and piling work as well .
Piling and whole stalk the leaves were dark red in color . The smoking is a totally different flavor that I like to mix in with my tobacco .

The whole stalk and piling leaf was from smaller plants in my field .

I would sugest if you have enough flue cured plants try 50 whole stalk and 25 gallon pile of leaves .

Burley is whole stalk cure as we take all the leaves at one time . Burley will ripen whole stalk .

Ct Broad leaf is whole stalk cut laid on the ground then after wilting the stalks are speared up just like burley and hung in a barn just like burley but with a little more spacing . Maryland 609 is harvested the same way along with more spacing than burley .

 

[johnlee1933]

Ct Broad leaf is whole stalk cut laid on the ground then after wilting the stalks are speared up just like burley and hung in a barn just like burley but with a little more spacing . Maryland 609 is harvested the same way along with more spacing than burley .

In the Connecticut valley (CT + southern MA) CT shade is primed.

John

 

[deluxestogie]

Two comments:

1. FmGrowit pointed out in a long-forgotten post that leaf that tends to dry green when primed has a better chance of yellowing if it is hung whole-stalk.
2. If cigar wrapper leaf is allowed to fully ripen, it will be rugose (bumpy like a Savoyed cabbage), and tend to develop a scalloped leaf margin. Such a leaf can never be truly flattened to make a "pretty" wrapper.

Bob

 

[LeftyRighty]

BigBonner.....
Explain or describe the how of 'pile curing' of leaf, in detail.
Is this just throwing a pile in the kiln? It sounds like you're saying do a flue-cure with leaf in a pile?

or is this the pile-cure method of starting a color-cure, before hanging to finish.
thanks

 

[BigBonner]

Johnlee1933

Shade is primed but the CT Broad Leaf that I know of is cut whole stalk .


They way I pile cured was by accident . I had primmed a bunch of Flue and I ran out of LP Gas . I let the leaves lay in a pile in straight order . Every three to four days I would turn the pile over and shake the leaves out some . It took the pile several weeks to cure . No kiln just laid out on a table and floor of my building .

 

[LeftyRighty]

I've read before about flue-curing with leaf in small bundles or hands hung on stick, or in 'boxes'
What's this boxes stuff about?

 

[Rayshields]

I've read before about flue-curing with leaf in small bundles or hands hung on stick, or in 'boxes'
What's this boxes stuff about?

I was proud to be the first to answer, as I quickly said, "I don't know." Mark Twain

 

[Rayshields]

Johnlee1933

Shade is primed but the CT Broad Leaf that I know of is cut whole stalk .


They way I pile cured was by accident . I had primmed a bunch of Flue and I ran out of LP Gas . I let the leaves lay in a pile in straight order . Every three to four days I would turn the pile over and shake the leaves out some . It took the pile several weeks to cure . No kiln just laid out on a table and floor of my building .

Larry, about how many leaves did you put in a pile? Did you use burlap or anything under the piles? Do you think Virginia Bright Leaf would cure light or dark using the pile method?

 

[BigBonner]

Ray

I laid some on concrete and some up on a wire rack . The pile on the rack was like 3' X 6 '. The leaves was about a foot thick and all over the rack .
The leaves turned a dark red / Brown .

 

[SmokeStack]

Thanks guys for your informative replies. I have another question... When I look at the pictures above of air cured tobacco, I noticed that the leaves are very wrinkled or shriveled. But when I order whole leaf tobacco, the leaves come nice and flat - completely spread-out. How do you get the leaves to come out flattened like this? Do you hydrate the leaf and then flattened them by hand? Do you have to press them at all?

 

[FmGrowit]

when I order whole leaf tobacco, the leaves come nice and flat - completely spread-out. How do you get the leaves to come out flattened like this?

Most cigar tobacco is processed that way (flattened). I don't know of any cigarette tobacco that is processed like that. You might get lucky and get some flue cured that is flat, but that's more of an accident than intentional.

The way to get the leaves to come out that way is to hire Santa's helpers do flatten them and then press them.

 

[SmokeStack]

The way to get the leaves to come out that way is to hire Santa's helpers do flatten them and then press them.

I ordered 10 pounds of TN90 and they were flattened and nicely presented when I received them - it seemed to be labor intensive to flatten all of those leaves!

 

[deluxestogie]

I think it's nice to have ready flattened wrapper and binder for cigars. On the other hand, naturally shriveled leaf for filler is more likely to draw well when firmly rolled. When properly cased, shriveled leaf is just as easy to hand stem as flat leaf (provided you actually do it by hand, rather than with a knife or paper cutter).

Bob

NOTE: My own home-grown wrapper is left au naturel. Once brought to medium case for rolling, it lies perfectly flat.

 

[Boboro]

I did some pile curring in a spare room last fall. One morning I heard a screem. The wife came in the living room and said one of them big green worms crawed in the bed with her. I ca'nt pile cure in the house and I do'nt recommed it to married folks.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

one of them big green worms crawed in the bed with her. .

Yeah, My wife complains every night about "the worm" in bed too....