http://delstartech.thomasnet.com/vi...elnet/delnet-pollination-bags?&bc=100|3001152 I only see quantities of 1000. If you want to do a group buy, Fisherman and I would like to talk about it.
US Nicotiana Germplasm Collection 2013 Nursery
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http://delstartech.thomasnet.com/vi...elnet/delnet-pollination-bags?&bc=100|3001152 I only see quantities of 1000. If you want to do a group buy, Fisherman and I would like to talk about it.
JessicaNicot
Well-Known Member
there are both boxes of 500 and 1000
oops. I see those now.
Count me in.
Thanks Jessica, thats what I need. You make it simple. I hope you don't gonna be fired cause you do your job with left hand and thanks again for doing it right hand for us.
BarG
Founding Member
They are very proud of those bags.
JessicaNicot
Well-Known Member
yeah, and we go thru THOUSANDS every season...
BarG
Founding Member
Thank goodness that you do for everyones sake.
I like your technique for stripping the leaves and flowered buds around bud stem, that is something I will use in future.
I like your technique for stripping the leaves and flowered buds around bud stem, that is something I will use in future.
Don't forget to label the bags. Permanent marker doesn't hold up to UV to well either.
Fisherman
Well-Known Member
I picked my first seeds today. Used 2 plants and have maybe 2 tablespoons of seeds from just them. Got some lil pil baggies coming too . Like lil ziplock bags. Am still interested in some of the bags if anyone wants to group buy.
DGBAMA
Well-Known Member
Count me in for 20 if a group buy happens.........hopefully I get all of mine to flower. 2 per variety and a couple spares.
BarG
Founding Member
It certainlly dididn't work om my wifes neck. I wrote ??!!?? and it washed right off/ It has worked for labeling on mini blind pieces and wood using black sharpies.
It's true that Sharpie eventually fades in direct sunlight. On smooth Styrofoam and some plastics, it fades very little. On bare wood, like a popsicle stick, if vanishes in a few weeks. On Tyvek labels, it fades over a couple of months. If you don't have that many labeled bags, then just writing the name again one time, when it's partially faded, will do the trick.
Last season, my seed bags were labeled on Tyvek tags sewn into the bag, and marked with Sharpie. I needed to overwrite 6 or 7 of them because of fading. India ink is carbon, and does not fade. Pencil is carbon, and does not fade.
Bob
Last season, my seed bags were labeled on Tyvek tags sewn into the bag, and marked with Sharpie. I needed to overwrite 6 or 7 of them because of fading. India ink is carbon, and does not fade. Pencil is carbon, and does not fade.
Bob
BarG
Founding Member
Ive never had a sharpie fade over a season in the field on my markings. I use wood in the field. It sucks up sharpie juice like crazy. Wierd, mine hasn't faded.
JessicaNicot
Well-Known Member
we have stakes out in the field and we dont harvest in them so we dont label the bags. at harvest time we take off the delnet bags and put the heads in labeled paper bags until we're ready to shell the seed. im not sure where we get them, but we use these doubled up paper bags.
skychaser
Well-Known Member
Yes, I'd say you are definitely a little late. Those flowers could already be cross pollinated by those other blooming plants I see in the background. I would have snipped every one of those open flowers off before bagging. Trimming up the head the way you do makes good sense, especially for the limited amount of seed you're trying to produce. But you are sacrificing quality control for convince. I'm all for making life easier but there is no way I would bag an already open flower. It really surprises me that you do that. But then I'm still stuck on the fact you ONLY grow 5 plants for seed stock too. There are well established guidelines for seed production which every seed grower I know fallows that you don't adhere to, like the 20/100 rule. And now bagging open flowers. Kinda blows me away. One of my buyers in particular would flat out reject any seed grown that way. Quality should come first. Everything else is a distant second. At least that's my 2 bit opinion.
DGBAMA
Well-Known Member
I imagine the bagged head in the pic was already done, as she specified removing all open flowers:
JessicaNicot
Well-Known Member
thanks for this. i did say that we remove all the open flowers and capsules that have begun to form (step #2, Trimming...). there are only buds and unopened flowers remaining when the bag is put on.
Do you reuse the bags? if so, do you take any precautions so that the pollen in them this year does not pollinate a different cultivar next year?
Skychaser raises an interesting issue about the number of plants from which to obtain a batch of seed.
Unlike most plants from which seed is collected, a single tobacco plant may produce 1/4 million seeds, as opposed to 1 or 10 or 100 or 1000. Each seed is the combination of a random meiosis that forms the ovum, and a random meiosis that forms the pollen grain. Although a quarter million can not represent all possible combinations of all its gene pairs, it's a far bit closer to that than, say, a watermelon that produces 500 seeds.
Then, when we plant the tobacco seeds--let's say we plant 250 plants of that variety--we are randomly selecting only a tenth of 1% (0.1%) of the diversity available in our batch of 1/4 million seeds. If we combine the total seed production of 10 plants, our 250 plant selection now is a random subset of a mere hundreth of a percent (0.01%) of the diversity in our combined batch of 2.5 million seeds.
Harvesting seed from a single plant that is not an exemplar of the variety is unwise in either scenario, so planting at least a few to observe (or hundreds, if you wish) is a good idea.
Now, I will readily admit that my statistics knowledge is pretty rusty, but it seems that from a practical standpoint, the diversity represented in the 1/4 million seeds of a single tobacco plant that is exemplary of it type is more diversity than you would achieve with the 20/100 rule applied to nearly all vegetable varieties, and most other plants. And this is attributable solely to the vast number of randomized seeds produced by a single tobacco plant, when compared to other cultivated plant species.
What I'm suggesting is that tobacco is a different proposition, when compared to most seed saving. A quarter million potential offspring per individual tobacco plant per year, but utilized at a rate of 0.1%, is sufficient diversity, excluding inadequate selection of the parent plant. If your chosen parent plant is a genetic freak, then combining its seed with that of 9 non-freak plants would still leave you with a 10% chance of germinating freak seed.
I may be completely wrong about this, but I'm just not up to the statistics challenge.
Bob
Unlike most plants from which seed is collected, a single tobacco plant may produce 1/4 million seeds, as opposed to 1 or 10 or 100 or 1000. Each seed is the combination of a random meiosis that forms the ovum, and a random meiosis that forms the pollen grain. Although a quarter million can not represent all possible combinations of all its gene pairs, it's a far bit closer to that than, say, a watermelon that produces 500 seeds.
Then, when we plant the tobacco seeds--let's say we plant 250 plants of that variety--we are randomly selecting only a tenth of 1% (0.1%) of the diversity available in our batch of 1/4 million seeds. If we combine the total seed production of 10 plants, our 250 plant selection now is a random subset of a mere hundreth of a percent (0.01%) of the diversity in our combined batch of 2.5 million seeds.
Harvesting seed from a single plant that is not an exemplar of the variety is unwise in either scenario, so planting at least a few to observe (or hundreds, if you wish) is a good idea.
Now, I will readily admit that my statistics knowledge is pretty rusty, but it seems that from a practical standpoint, the diversity represented in the 1/4 million seeds of a single tobacco plant that is exemplary of it type is more diversity than you would achieve with the 20/100 rule applied to nearly all vegetable varieties, and most other plants. And this is attributable solely to the vast number of randomized seeds produced by a single tobacco plant, when compared to other cultivated plant species.
What I'm suggesting is that tobacco is a different proposition, when compared to most seed saving. A quarter million potential offspring per individual tobacco plant per year, but utilized at a rate of 0.1%, is sufficient diversity, excluding inadequate selection of the parent plant. If your chosen parent plant is a genetic freak, then combining its seed with that of 9 non-freak plants would still leave you with a 10% chance of germinating freak seed.
I may be completely wrong about this, but I'm just not up to the statistics challenge.
Bob
leverhead
Well-Known Member
Right or wrong, it makes sense to me. Thank you!
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