Oldfella
Well-Known Member
Interesting. Keep us posted, with pics. I'm curious to see the results.
Oldfella
PressuredLeaf's 2021 desert grow
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Oldfella
PressuredLeaf
Well-Known Member
Different year. Piloto Cubano (which exhibited a lot of genetic variability) selected for the broadest leaf shape.
Bob
Thank you for the photos Bob, I that last one looks almost identical to some of my leaves. I think that solves it, its Piloto not CT Broadleaf.
Hi Oldfella, some more news of the ammonia releasing leaves. I sprayed some of the inoculant on some leaves in bags in my kiln and there was no evidence of ammonia. Maybe its too hot for the ammonia releasing mechanism in the kiln, weather its microbial or enzymatic in nature. I did however also spray it on two hands of viso/seco from my piloto and corojo leaves that were drying too quickly (after yellowing). These leaves were brought up to high case and subsequently put in a garbage bag to keep the humidity in. Twice a day I shake the hands out to keep the chances of mold low, and today there was a very noticeable ammonia smell. I'm guessing that original pile of YTB leaves that started releasing ammonia did so because of the very high moisture. My thought is the ammonia releasing mechanism has more mobility in high water leaf, with the tradeoff risk of mold. However, since the leaves were in a stack little air could get into the environment to support mold growth. I'm going to continue this process with the leaves until ammonia production slows down, then move them to the kiln. Also, after reading some old Ag science articles, it seems like Pilon temperatures range all the way from 85f-130+f. I think I may experiement with a lower temperature ramping approach to see if I can get something more cigar like. Of course I will have to be much more vigilante about mold. I'll try and snap some phots of the leaves tomorrow.
PressuredLeaf
Well-Known Member
Some exciting news for my cigar leaf.
The very first corojo leaves I picked went into the kiln after air drying and have been there since. Although they smell very nice, they don't smell like "cigar" leaves to me (that spicy earthy smell). This second time around I had two hands of leaves that were air drying too quickly. One hand was corjo and the other was piloto. I took the hands down and misted them until they were in high case and put them in a trash bag to rehydrate. They have been in there for about two weeks (shaken in air once a day to avoid mold) and there was a very prominent evolution of Ammonia. Last night I noticed the ammonia smell was still quite strong, but the vegetal smell had dissipated into a more familiar "cigar" smell. So today I excitedly grabbed a small leaf of pilot and corojo to roll a small cigar. The dried leaf actually smelled similar to some of the commercial stuff I have worked with in the past. The cigar itself burned okay, but the ash was very dark. The flavor however was very exciting, quite similar to Caribbean type leaf! It was quite good, but it still left a bitter taste in the mouth. I imagine it needs to time release all of the ammonia. I will be treating all of my subsequent cigar leaf to this process.
What do I think is happening?
1. Keeping the leaves in high case prevents them from drying too quickly
2. Slow dying of the leaf cells allows for the enzymes to break down more components in the cells.
3. De amination of the leaf amino acids (ammonia offgasing) increases the pH of the leaf
4. Higher pH favors oxidation/polyphenol oxidase to oxidize the phenols into the spicy cigar flavors we know and love
My guess is this happens naturally in the high humidity Caribbean where it takes ~6 weeks to, but here in AZ where the humidity is often less than 20% I have to take extra steps to get something similar.
The very first corojo leaves I picked went into the kiln after air drying and have been there since. Although they smell very nice, they don't smell like "cigar" leaves to me (that spicy earthy smell). This second time around I had two hands of leaves that were air drying too quickly. One hand was corjo and the other was piloto. I took the hands down and misted them until they were in high case and put them in a trash bag to rehydrate. They have been in there for about two weeks (shaken in air once a day to avoid mold) and there was a very prominent evolution of Ammonia. Last night I noticed the ammonia smell was still quite strong, but the vegetal smell had dissipated into a more familiar "cigar" smell. So today I excitedly grabbed a small leaf of pilot and corojo to roll a small cigar. The dried leaf actually smelled similar to some of the commercial stuff I have worked with in the past. The cigar itself burned okay, but the ash was very dark. The flavor however was very exciting, quite similar to Caribbean type leaf! It was quite good, but it still left a bitter taste in the mouth. I imagine it needs to time release all of the ammonia. I will be treating all of my subsequent cigar leaf to this process.
What do I think is happening?
1. Keeping the leaves in high case prevents them from drying too quickly
2. Slow dying of the leaf cells allows for the enzymes to break down more components in the cells.
3. De amination of the leaf amino acids (ammonia offgasing) increases the pH of the leaf
4. Higher pH favors oxidation/polyphenol oxidase to oxidize the phenols into the spicy cigar flavors we know and love
My guess is this happens naturally in the high humidity Caribbean where it takes ~6 weeks to, but here in AZ where the humidity is often less than 20% I have to take extra steps to get something similar.
MadFarmer
Well-Known Member
Gorgeous leaves. Are those Corojo or Piloto?
PressuredLeaf
Well-Known Member
The darker leaves on the right are piloto and the redder leaves are corojo. That cigarilllo was wrapped in corojo as well. These were volado/seco leaves, and judging by the darkness of the piloto, I think the higher primings could be very nice maduro or oscuro wrappers.
PressuredLeaf
Well-Known Member
Picked the last of the corojo and most of the piloto today, still have to do the ct broadleaf which I think I’ll stalk cure. Also, I chopped down most of the YTB to stalk cure. I had a bad hornworm infestation about 2 weeks ago that ruined some very nice leaves. I did two good sprays with BT and I haven’t found a single one since! I always get a little wary when ready about biological control agents, but this one seems to work exactly as advertised.
Today I also tried some toasted YTB from my bag of fermenting leaves. I took a few leaves out, de stemmed them and sprayed them thoroughly with a 10% invert sugar solution. They were placed on a piece of foil and toasted at 285f for 20 minutes. Once toasted I brought them into medium case with same invert solution plus some vinegar. The leaves were sliced and allowed to dry to low case overnight. The prepped leaves have a very pleasant mild aroma that reminds me of grape nuts. The smoke was extremely smooth, and had much less bite than before. It had a sort of floral nutty taste and a very pleasant “pipe tobacco” smell. I think this will be a great blender.
Today I also tried some toasted YTB from my bag of fermenting leaves. I took a few leaves out, de stemmed them and sprayed them thoroughly with a 10% invert sugar solution. They were placed on a piece of foil and toasted at 285f for 20 minutes. Once toasted I brought them into medium case with same invert solution plus some vinegar. The leaves were sliced and allowed to dry to low case overnight. The prepped leaves have a very pleasant mild aroma that reminds me of grape nuts. The smoke was extremely smooth, and had much less bite than before. It had a sort of floral nutty taste and a very pleasant “pipe tobacco” smell. I think this will be a great blender.
PressuredLeaf
Well-Known Member
I cut down about 5 out of 10 CT broadleaf plants to stalk cure. I had kinda given up on these earlier on due to the small size and poor growth rate compared to the other varieties, but the plants actually look really nice. Big leathery leaves, and tons of suckers.
MadFarmer
Well-Known Member
My Corojo isn't this dark, it's cured but not kilned. Is there a 'drying too fast' other than flash drying green?
PressuredLeaf
Well-Known Member
Its not quite as dark as it looks in the picture, and its very damp in that photo. I would say slow drying is ideal for cigar leaf, but I'm not an expert.
During color-curing, the higher the average relative humidity, the darker the final leaf color.
Bob
Bob
MadFarmer
Well-Known Member
That would explain why my 'winter' tobacco was darker than the summer. Higher RH Sept through May here.
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